Renovating a pub, or two

Cocksure

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Well it took a bit longer than planned :laugh: but I now own two pubs :)
The section marked with the brown lines isn't mine (yet), but there is a pond there that I would like to buy. The section in Red I plan to live in but undecided on what to do with the rest just let.
 
Best of all I don't need to fit any showers as you just stand under the roof when it's raining! :laugh:

Now I enter the slow stage, council have said that they are keen to bring it back to life again, but will not say any more till full plans are submitted, thanks to the virus, site visits by architects are no longer straight forward. Ah well I always knew it would take time :confused: :)
 
Well, that has been an educational and stressful 2 weeks!

When I bought the site I knew that it came with a planning enforcement order that expired yesterday, I also knew that being listed things would not be straightforward, what I didn’t plan on was just how nasty neighbours can be.

Shortly after buying the pub I sent an email to the council to ask if we could be grated a months extension on the enforcement notice, the council came back a few days later and said no. Part of the site had been used as an illegal caravan site, brothel, drug dealing etc, and they wanted it gone. Not great, but fair enough. However, in order to clear the area, I need to arrange for the grass to be cut first that was at least 4 foot high so as I could see what was there, normally you could sell it as hay, but given the history, no one wanted it for that, and bushes needed to be pulled out etc so as you could get to the caravans etc. On a 2.5 acre site that is a lot of waste!

In the meantime, I thought I would clear the rubbish, rotten wood, rubble etc from and around the building whilst making sure to keep well away from the listed part so as to not harm/effect that area till it was inspected etc. That all goes fine for a couple of days and then I get an email from a conservation officer saying she had had a report of illegal destruction of a listed building. I replied giving her my number and saying I was staying well clear of that area, and an hour later she is on-site doing an emergency visit. Turns out I was wrong if one part of a building is listed then all the building is listed, not a great start with the conservation department and I was told to stop all work immediately.

So that evening I sent her an email with pictures explaining everything I had done, why, but acknowledging that I was in the wrong and how do we fix it. I am waiting to hear what the formal outcome will be, but she has softened in attituded and become very helpful as I can now said her a picture of what I want to do and get her clearance or not before I do it. I can accept this reporting to the council by my neighbours as it is a listed building.

By the time of the visit the area with the enforcement order on it had been cleared with the grass cuttings, bushes etc and put into large piles etc. The only sensible way for dealing with the waste was to burn it along with any naked wood etc that would come from clearing the site. However, before I started the fire, I applied for a licence to burn and checked with planning enforcement if they had an issue with it (they didn’t).

A few days later the licence is granted so I start a fire, a few hours later the fire brigade turns up and says they have had a report of an illegal fire, in which non-allowable things were being burnt such as asbestos, tyres etc. They spent 2 hours on-site checking everything was legal and went away happy and I was allowed to keep burning. Fair play to them as they gave me the number of there control office and said just give us a call when you burn. Just as well I rang them at the start and finish of every burn as they informed me over the phone that reports of illegal burning had kept coming in!

Now you might be thinking that the neighbours would be hacked off by the burning, but the fires were kept well away from any houses so as to not smoke them out, and equally, they are keen to have the site cleared as they have been looking at it for years, they were spoken to about it, and whilst no one likes the mess that clearing brings, they accept the price of doing it.

Then roll on yesterday and the next thing I know the boys in blue turn up, reports of destroying a bats nest! Like I would even think of doing that having already had two official visits! Officer was brilliant, walked around the site and said it's clearly a case of someone has it in for you. Nothing illegal going on here.

Still, enforcement order met, friendly terms with the police established which as I’m more than expected more visits from "illegal" activity (the officer was) is good, conservation officer communication established and friendly terms with the fire brigade. An exhausting but hopefully long term beneficial relationship established.

Bad two weeks with some people in the area though as some person(s) doesn’t like me being there, as a result of it all my attitude has changed from yes your kids can still play on the land which I told the neighbours at the start to …

The one upside of it being a listed building is that its what historical Britain think that goes, not the neighbours, the downside is that who wants to be a war with there neighbours.
 
I don’t know how many neighbours you have, but would it be worthwhile detailing pretty much what you’ve put in the post above to them in a mail shot, (maybe in a slightly different format, but still....)?

Basically, if they knew that you only had days in which to comply with an enforcement notice, that you have no intention of doing anything illegal towards a listing building, and are taking every precaution to avoid harming any wildlife that may be present - maybe, just maybe, you’d get them all on your side (and against the seemingly solitary silly sod making your life difficult)!

Surely, development of the property would be of benefit to them in improving the local area, and is something to be encouraged, not dissuaded.
 
Thanks @The Dreamer
My closet neighbour did come over to suggest the same idea whilst stressing they had no issues. As we are currently in talks about buying/selling land to each other I didn’t pay much attention to the idea, come from you a true third party however...

I’ll not do anything just yet though as I’m exhausted and need to calm down, but I’ll give your idea some serious thought :)
 
I think it's people's natural fear of the unknown - if they know that you only have good intentions, then maybe they'll come around a touch?

Fingers crossed anyway!
 
Sorry you've had such a rough time of it there. Listed Buildings are bad enough without people throwing every other obstacle at you as well.

At least those that matter are now a little more onside and will hopefully ignore further nuisance calls. Don't let the haters get in the way of your dream (once you've calmed down and had a tipple of choice of course).

Or just torch the lot and blame the druggies. *








*not an actual recommendation...
 
Or just torch the lot and blame the druggies. *

*not an actual recommendation...
Funny you should say that the insurance is 3k for the year because it is listed and empty. Listed buildings have a habit of going up in flame according to the insurance company and informed me of 2 listed pubs (no names etc) that have gone up in the past 2 years within a 20-mile radius of this one. 1 of them I know about as I did take a quick look at it at the start, turns out that the owner is being prosecuted and that they burnt down the wrong half (the part without the historic features), found that out last week from the guys who have been helping to clear the site.
 
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@John @IronGiant @rousetafarian
Is it possible to delete posts 1 to 83 (or as you see fit :)) as the thread is no longer about that and move the thread over to the right forum as its no longer a GC thread?

There's nothing bad in posts 1 to 83, it's just that this has become a renovation thread and the 1st 3 pages are not about that. Removes a GC thread whilst stops a new thread being started elsewhere.
 
Does anyone have any advice on the steps you need to do to register living in a static caravan on a plot of land please?

Its all a huge grey area at the moment planning wise so I'm trying to do everything else as official as possible. As mentioned previously, there was a planning enforcement order that expired on Friday for the removal of an illegal caravan site, rubbish etc on the land. This had been fully complied with, with the exception of 1 caravan that I have kept for myself to live in whilst work is done to make the building liveable pending planning etc, especially as there is an unofficial (at this stage) order to not do any work on the building.

Planning enforcement arent happy as by keeping the one caravan (the brothel I have since found out) I have breached the enforcement notice, however, it is something that is allowed under permitted development, and whilst the enforcement notice trumps permitted development rights, any court action now would take this into account, the need for it as I currently live 150 miles away, security needs (stop the place being burnt down etc and will bring the insurance cost down) and so on. I've been upfront with them from the start, and it has been unofficially agreed that they will do nothing until a formal planning application is made for the listed building that has the temporary caravan attached to it and decide then.

In the meantime I have contacted the council tax team, arrange a phone line with BT, utilities are supplied from the listed building so they need to be contacted, as will the post office to register the address, is there anyone else I need to contact?
 
Wow! If only there were more people in the world like you ready to take on projects like this!!

Having had a (new build) cottage in a conservation area and the issues we had just building a small extension on it, I feel your pain. It sounds like your approach with the authorities will pay dividends down the road, but it sounds like a hearts and minds exercise with the neighbours is needed as well.

I will never understand why some people feel the need to interfere in other people's business - particularly when they are simply trying to improve the local amenities.

All the very best and I hope all goes well as the project progresses.
 
You have to love life sometimes, over the weekend I thought well at least I have it rock bottom with all these different visits. Nope enter Environmental Health department yesterday, fresh complaint, fresh person to deal with :(

Thankfully I can only assume that she must live locally or has had a lot of previous dealings with the site as she knew it very well, it was quickly sorted, but boy is this ever going to end.

I have been advised that I should get in touch with the department that handles hedges etc as I can see that being the next department to contact me, Edit just spoke to council, unless its on public land then its a police matter not a council and the police are already involved (never thought I would be glad to say that :laugh:)
 
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Just a thought, as this person who is working their way through the Book of Officialdom probably lives locally, why not put up a couple of notices detailing your plans. They may be concerned that you are about to put up a housing estate on the site or are planning a "mystery fire" to clear it for nefarious purposes.

Lay out your plans for the site and ask for local support. Approach the parish council as well as there's a good chance this busybody will have their hooks into them as well. I would imagine you are viewed with some suspicion as an outsider to the village and perhaps this person had a dream to buy the site themselves.

Quite honestly the local authorities will eventually tire of this individual and if you are doing most things right will support you. The complainer will lose any local support they might have had and will probably move onto something else.

Of course, you could just give them something else to worry about. Maybe start a rumour that they are going to start fracking on the other side of the village...
 
Of course, you could just give them something else to worry about. Maybe start a rumour that they are going to start fracking on the other side of the village...
Now that idea I like :laugh: maybe a slaughter house at the same time! ;)

Seriously though that's a good idea :) I have been telling the neighbours who I have spoken to what the plan is, but I'm thinking that as I should hopefully get the architect rough plans this week, putting that up on display might put a lot of minds at rest. As you say people fear I will split it into many flats etc, and currently don't believe what I have told them
 
Well the war continues and I just can’t see that changing anytime soon now :(

This time I’m the cause so to speak, but it was unavoidable. Trouble with buying a property that has been empty for a long time is that people (understandably) tend to start to view it as public land and don’t like it when they are reminded that it’s not.

Dog walkers have been used the field that I need to put an end to, and people have been using the car park for their own private use, to sell cars etc. I didn’t have an issue with this, but I did have an issue with the fact that someone has been around on site for the past 3 weeks and yet no one popped over to ask if it was ok. Which I would have said yes to.

Anyhow, words said to one neighbour and let’s just say it didn’t go well! Neighbour said words to the effect of I’ve been parking there for years, it does no harm, I’m doing you a favour as it looks like someone lives there, are you trying to make me an enemy etc. I came back with equally heated words, such as I’ll start parking my vehicle in your garden, I’ll buy an old banger, tax it and permanently park it outside your house with a for sale sign and then you to can enjoy all the same benefits etc.

Up shot is that the conversation has gone viral around the village, dog walkers have stopped and cars are all gone, but my position as a troublemaker is firmly established. Ah the joys of the country side
 
It sounds like he knew he was in the wrong, so got a bit defensive. No doubt the dog walkers will return - at least based on the problems that we have with owners letting their dogs crap on our front garden...

A mate of mine owns a couple of paddocks for his wife's horses. There's no public right of way, but lockdown has let to a massive influx in trespassers. He's now put up notices and added some extra height to the gates, but problems persist!

I am sure things will settle down once the villagers start to understand what you doing and that they are going to get a village amenity back. God help you if you stock the wrong draught beer though...
 
I didn't get the impression he was necessarily planning on re-opening the pub.
 
I made that assumption as well; at least one pub I thought. :thumbsup:
It is the right assumption now :)
It wasn’t the plan when I first made the offer, but my dad has since come forward and said he has always dreamed of running a pub. Perfect solution, one pub for my own use and reopen the other pub which means I don’t have to cover the costs of that side of the building works.

Whether it works or fails is fine either way for me so i had no objections. Council is jumping up and down with joy over the idea and has become a lot friendlier about losing one pub if the other remains. Local people have been told and everyone of them has been delighted etc. Turns out that the pubs are very well known in the area, two of the fire brigade people use to drink their, same with the copper, I just need to give the pub name to the council and they instantly know where it is etc. The two pubs has been around for at least 150 years.

In regards the neighbour i fell out with, I have since learnt that he’s the local “hard” man, so hopefully the dog walkers etc will stop as the story is that I’m trying to be the new hard man :rolleyes: by taking him on. I had no idea!
 
Seven stars inn which is the listed part that I plan to switch to domestic and keep for myself. Other half is the halfway house inn which will be reopened. Seven stars has been closed for 30 plus years, halfway house inn since 2018, given the state of it though you would think much longer
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Rear view
 

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