Rewatching the Skywalker Saga

gavinhanly

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So I'm posting this because I've seen @richp007 posting thoughts in the Rise of Skywalker thread. But as some might be avoiding that thread before the movie, I think it'd be good to have a separate discussion.

So this is all about people rewatching Episodes 1-8 before the new movie comes out. Spoilers for all 8 movies, obviously, but not for 9, please.

To get you started - here are Rich's thoughts:

Phantom Menace
Clones and Sith
The OT

As for me - I've just watched Phantom Menace so far. Thoughts are:
  • There is some atrocious acting on show here. McGregor and Portman are the worst, with Lloyd not far behind. The nadir of this is the line "I ask you to help, no I beg" which is the flattest reading it could possibly be - as if reading it off a cue card. Just terrible.
  • Jar Jar still terrible, even though Best is at least trying.
  • Mc Diarmid towers over the rest, although I thought Hugh Quarshie was rather good. But I can also see why he left, given he was given less than nothing to work with.
  • The fast 2/3 of the movie, with the exception of the pod race is a terrible slog. Pace is all over the place and none of the set pieces really come together.
  • Ultimately it's just a very boring story.
  • But the pod race itself, is still awesome. I just love that, even if it is ridiculous how quickly Anakin catches up
  • And the lightsaber fight is, IMO, the best of the whole series. The last bit between Maul and Kenobi is still amazing in its ferocity, just quite outstanding.
  • But it does showcase Kenobi's inability to hang onto his lightsaber. That'll be coming up again.
  • The last section - the four-way battle - is where my interest piqued again. Although it's ultimately ruined by Anakin - "I'll try turning left!"
Overall - just a TERRIBLE movie, rescued by a couple of great moments which make you wonder what could have been.

Onto Clones next.
 
My mate and I have been rewatching the saga (with star wars drinking games). Almost finished now. All in chronological order:

Week 1: The Phantom Menace

Week 2: Attack of the Clones & Revenge of the Sith

Week 3: Solo

Week 4: Rogue One & A New Hope

Week 5: Empire Strikes Back & Return of the Jedi


still to come:

Week 6: The Force Awakens & The Last Jedi


So I'm posting this because I've seen @richp007 posting thoughts in the Rise of Skywalker thread. But as some might be avoiding that thread before the movie, I think it'd be good to have a separate discussion.

So this is all about people rewatching Episodes 1-8 before the new movie comes out. Spoilers for all 8 movies, obviously, but not for 9, please.

To get you started - here are Rich's thoughts:

Phantom Menace
Clones and Sith
The OT

As for me - I've just watched Phantom Menace so far. Thoughts are:
  • There is some atrocious acting on show here. McGregor and Portman are the worst, with Lloyd not far behind. The nadir of this is the line "I ask you to help, no I beg" which is the flattest reading it could possibly be - as if reading it off a cue card. Just terrible.
  • Jar Jar still terrible, even though Best is at least trying.
  • Mc Diarmid towers over the rest, although I thought Hugh Quarshie was rather good. But I can also see why he left, given he was given less than nothing to work with.
  • The fast 2/3 of the movie, with the exception of the pod race is a terrible slog. Pace is all over the place and none of the set pieces really come together.
  • Ultimately it's just a very boring story.
  • But the pod race itself, is still awesome. I just love that, even if it is ridiculous how quickly Anakin catches up
  • And the lightsaber fight is, IMO, the best of the whole series. The last bit between Maul and Kenobi is still amazing in its ferocity, just quite outstanding.
  • But it does showcase Kenobi's inability to hang onto his lightsaber. That'll be coming up again.
  • The last section - the four-way battle - is where my interest piqued again. Although it's ultimately ruined by Anakin - "I'll try turning left!"
Overall - just a TERRIBLE movie, rescued by a couple of great moments which make you wonder what could have been.

Onto Clones next.

I'll add my thoughts to yours if thats ok, otherwise I've a lot to review! So; The Phantom Menace...

My friend is a big prequel apologist so he was pointing out good things, while inwardly I was thinking of Mr Plinkett's world-class (and hilarious) deconstruction video. So I'll go with a pro & con list:

Pros:
Qui Gon slicing through bulkheads with his lightsaber (always liked seeing what those things could do).
Imaginative worlds and environments expand the universe nicely.
Coruscant is amazing, and very important to selling the idea of a galaxy-wide civilisation
Darth Maul
Sea monsters!
Podrace
Some neat space action
Terrific lightsaber duel
Qui Gon is the most interesting character (insofar as he actually has one).

Cons:
Flat, boring intro.
Muddled and dull plot.
Jedi wearing desert robes on spaceships looks a bit silly.
Horribly jarring and cringey script and performances.
Qui Gon's terribly convoluted plan for getting off Tatoonine.
Boooooring politics.
Some very iffy creature design, and fairly dated visual effects.
No emotional investment in anything that happens.
Tonally all over the place.
Climatic battle nearly spoils two exhilarating sequences (space battle, saber duel) with two rubbish ones (grass battle, palace break in). 'The ending multiplication effect'.


It is a terrible movie, but I can't quite bring myself to hate it. Generous 5/10 then.
 
I had an absolute barnstormer last night; watched TFA and TLJ back to back.

Now you might say what kind of a crazy fool would do such a thing.

Well it's a bit of a shocker this - brace yourselves....

....I rather enjoyed them :eek:

Being in full on Star Wars mode obviously helped, but watching them as one - or as I viewed it as a little mini-series - it kind of bloody worked.

Will drop my reviews in the next day or two, but having been a critic of both films in the past, I'm reigning some of that Mr. Nasty in this time. There's still things not to like, but there's some good stuff in there I may not have fully appreciated first time around.
 
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So I caught up with Attack of the Clones last night - in the past this was the bottom of my list, now I'm thinking that maybe Phantom really is the worst of the lot.

Thoughts are:
  • McGregor is better in this one, but it's from such a low bar, that this really isn't a compliment. The "banter" between him and Christensen is excruciating
  • Although they do get a point back for the "I came to rescue you" "Good job" moment.
  • The Anakin/Padme romance is probably the lowest moment for the series as a whole. It should be the crux of the prequel trilogy but it fails miserably. Anakin is just so creepy - it's essentially a galactic #metoo case waiting to happen.
  • Generally speaking, the acting is once again terrible. Even McDiarmid isn't great in this. And it's notable that McGregor only really ups his game when he's around the one great actor in the piece, Christopher Lee
  • Obi Wan really can't hold onto his lightsaber.
  • In general, reaffirms my belief that the acting/chemistry of Star Wars is half the battle and that's why it was so important to get right in the current trilogy.
  • Also - I totally don't understand Dooku's plan. Other than push the story along, why does he tell them about Sidious/Palpatine? After many viewings, this still makes absolutely no sense.
  • But the design is, once again. excellent. From Kamino to the Jedi Starfigther and all the clone ships and tanks. The current trilogy has nothing that even approaches what's on show here.
  • And Dooku's lightsaber is my favourite of the bunch.
  • But the main saving grace of the movie is that it led to the prequel era's high point - the Clone Wars series.
I need a break from this before I can tackle Sith, I think. More next weekend!
 
So I caught up with Attack of the Clones last night - in the past this was the bottom of my list, now I'm thinking that maybe Phantom really is the worst of the lot.

I need a break from this before I can tackle Sith, I think. More next weekend!

It's appalling (yet again), but I do admit I have a soft spot for it. The nighttime Coruscant chase is fabulous, Obi Wan's engagements with Jango (both hand to hand and in the asteroid field) are awesome, and there's a real sense of foreboding (aided by John Williams' score). Also Anakin's terrible revenge scene is one of the trilogy's most powerful moments. I was stunned.

But dear lord, that script! The performances! Groan. And the awful spectacle of Yoda bouncing off walls like a tasmanian devil, which is amoung several things I wish I could un-see.


  • Also - I totally don't understand Dooku's plan. Other than push the story along, why does he tell them about Sidious/Palpatine? After many viewings, this still makes absolutely no sense.

I think this is the 'rule of two' coming into play. Dooku knows that the Emperor is out to replace him with a younger model; so he means to get in there first. Dooku + Obi Wan would be a formidable duo, enough maybe to overthrow the Emperor. Notice also that this is exactly mirrored by Vader's identical offer to Luke in The Empire Strikes Back.

Then with Sidious out of the picture, Dooku could even go on to replace Obi Wan with Anakin.
 
I like the "rule of two". It presents the Sith as the greater danger, and the villains should always be more dangerous. They don't come around that often, but when they do it's bad news!

I'd like JJ to revisit this for the finale. It adds an interesting dynamic too with the trio of Rey, Ren and
Palpatine
 
Ok - the rule of two thing does make a little more sense now, granted. But I think it could have been a little more obvious in the movie. Star Wars doesn't really need subtlety...

One more thing - all the CGI characters out-act the real people. I wonder if that's because they had different people overseeing the actors' recording? Dex, for example, is a great character IMO.
 
Completed my saga rewatch with The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. As with some of the prequels, my opinion of these seems to go up or down depending how the wind blows- anything from 5/10 to 8/10.

This was a good rewatch. My mate had his daggers out (he's been watching too much youtube) but I was ready for him and encouraged us focus on the positive aspects, of which there are many. We both agree that Adam Driver is fantastic as Kylo Ren; the saga is really lucky to have him. In fact I'd go so far as to say he's the best of all the younger cast members across all three trilogies. Daisy Ridley isn't quite in his league, but her likeability and charisma compensate, especially in the first film. I love her.

The whole cast as dynamic and energetic and breathe life back into star wars after the era of monotone and blue screen. Set pieces are exciting and both are gorgeous visually. TFA is beautifully shot and is so refreshingly tactile after the digitised prequels. TLJ is just a stunner to look at especially the segments on Crait.

There remain storytelling issues that I'll never be happy with. The political background, Starkiller base, first order/resistance incompetence, Holdo's plan, the code-breaker nonsense. The rebel briefing in TFA is also inarguably the worst scene in all of star wars, and Rogue One still knocks both films into a cocked hat.

On balance though they are still highly entertaining films with some wonderful, if underdeveloped, characters. I like 'em. Super pumped for Rise of Skywalker.
 
The rebel briefing vs anything with Jar Jar in it? Why don't you like that bit?
 
The rebel briefing vs anything with Jar Jar in it? Why don't you like that bit?

At least with Jar Jar you know what you're getting. The dialogue is infantile in this scene. "Its big, lets blow it up, Hans right, i like this guy, lets do it team!". Dear lord. It has all the military gravitas of a time out in a junior 5 a side hockey game. So dreadfully corny.

In fact, Jar Jar wouldn't be out of place if he were in the scene!
 
Revenge of the Sith, afaik, remains the only Star Wars film entirely filmed indoors or against blue screen. Zero location shooting.

Just googled and yep, there were establishing shots on location but no acting. Poor actors. How Ian McDiarmid still manages to do a half-decent job despite everything is beyond me.
I felt similarly when I sat and watched all 17,000 hours of documentary footage on the Battle of the Five Armies Extended Cut. "And...something will go here. We'll work it out in post with one day to go before release"
 
The Skywalker Saga recap video posted in the SW General Thread is all I need to see of the prequel trilogy. I just booked tickets to see the sequel trilogy triple bill at my local cinema on the 18th (had no desire to do that but it's only £5 more than TROS tickets) so I don't need to rewatch them. I'll start with the originals this weekend.
 
Finished the prequels on Thursday. I don't know what's happened, but I actually really enjoyed all three of them this time. The problems haven't gone away, but I guess the things I enjoy about them matter more to me nowadays. Like with Attack of the Clones, I still have to close my eyes and take myself to another place when Anakin reunites with Padme for the first time, but while it's never Oscar-worthy, things do improve with them, especially once they've spent some time on Naboo, plus I think JW's score helps. I just love the world-building in these prequels, which AotC really does a particularly great job of. Still some real (ma)clunky stuff like Dooku arguing this his/Yoda's "contest" can only be decided by lightsaber duelling, when these guys if anything should be the kinds who are above such 'primitive' things when they've got far more powerful force abilities. And I think they overdid it with Yoda's word phrasing. But eh whatever, even the CGI battle at the end didn't offend me as much as I thought it would. I do have to laugh when that old codger from Naboo in the Phantom Menace manages to outlive practically everyone when you see him pop up at the funeral in RotS. Half expecting him to appear in Rise of Skywalker :D

Watched Rogue One last night, definitely in my top two Star Wars movies and pairs so well with ANH when you watch them back to back.

Watched the 4K HDR version of A New Hope, and while there were definitely some improvements to the picture, I was actually really disappointed overall. I don't know how much of it is simply down to the source, and how much down to a still relatively dated 4K 2012 remaster (I doubt HDR was actually taken into account at this point), but there were times when some really odd things were going on. The shot where the X-Wings take off from Yavin, the sky was universally monochromatic, rather than blue, it looked really odd, and I can't imagine that's how it should be looking. I've never been a fan of the contrasty/pumped Blu-ray colours, but this seemed to go almost in the complete opposite direction, very drab in places. Saying that, this was viewed by uh..other means, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the streaming service version for now, and will see how the 4K Blu-ray versions look, but if there are only minor improvements, I think I'll be waiting for some substantial price drops before I pick up any 9-film boxset.

Empire tonight (controversial: my least favourite of the OT... I bought RotJ first as a kid, practically wore out the VHS before I even bought Star Wars, and didn't see TESB for ages) then Return of the Jedi tomorrow. Some of the pre-TFA novels during the week, TFA/TLJ next weekend then the Rise of the Resistance book before that midnight screening in Dolby Cinema. Haven't been this excited for a SW film since Rogue One :)
 
So - I've just completed Sith. Hooray, I've made it through the prequels!! Fascinating to read above about the lack of location shots. and indeed, there are some moments on Coruscant where it looks like video game footage in the background.

Thoughts on this one are:

- The actors are significantly better than they were before - but let's remember that this is from a very low bar indeed. Going into Skywalker (or even ROTJ) we weren't hoping the acting finally got better with the last instalment. So this remains the worst thing by far about the prequels, and that outweighs any problems in the current trilogy
- That said, every now and then the acting takes a real dive. See any scenes between Anakin and Padme talking about their "love". There's a bit where he points out her necklace and it just sounds like they're both reading off a piece of paper.
- Story-wise, things improve. But it feels that Lucas realised he was running out of time and had to cram everything is. And the biggest issue with that is when Anakin turns for the first time - it's just too bloody quick. One minute on the side of the jedi, the next killing younglings.
- That said, he's very good in most of the Mustafar scenes - there the balance of the character is getting much better. But he's clearly no Adam Driver.
- As Rich says above, McDiarmid rises above everyone else. The trilogy works much better as his rise than Anakin's downfall (and thus may make certain decisions in the new film make more sense). I'm sure we'll be hearing more of Darth Plagueis.
- Hes, the shouty lizard is annoying. But "hello there" is still great.
- But I really, really hate the rubbery facemask they gave him. I also remember how they gave away his transformation in all the marketing materials - that's a big difference under Disney/ Abrams - they appreciate the need to keep things back.
- And the duel between him and Mace Windu is by some distance the worst lightsaber fight in the entire saga
- Although the deepfake Christopher Lee fight comes close. And the final battle substitutes lots of bashing around for any of the artistry from Ep 1. Sigh.
- This episode is one of John Wiliams' finest though, there are some excellent moments here.
- And finally, Obi Wan ends the trilogy as he began, unable to hang onto his bloody lightsaber.

So - onwards! Finally - after no small effort - I have a Disney + account. Original trilogy in 4K? Yes, please.
 
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So I've boxed my re-watch off. Firstly...

The Force Awakens - 6.5/10

I think after the relative disaster of the prequels, this was at least a breath of fresh air back into the franchise.

Visually it's a treat, mainly due in some ways to us having being treated to a horror show of visuals in the last Star Wars we saw which was Revenge of the Sith. I particularly liked when Rey first takes control of the Falcon, and thought that little battle with the Tie Fighters was excellently done.

As lucasisking "often" says :laugh: Daisy is lovely, and whilst I don't particularly rate her character, she brings an energy to the film that was much needed after the stale and quite frankly horrendous displays of Hayden and Natalie in the prequels.

Likewise John Boyega does the same with Finn, and I have always thought the idea of a Stormtrooper going rogue to help the resistance was a top notch idea. Not something I ever saw coming, and I remember watching the trailer all those years ago and getting excited at the prospect of seeing a Stormtrooper not being a Stormtrooper anymore.

The re-introduction of Han and Chewie is also most welcome, and for while on this re-watch I found myself quite enjoying the ride.

That was until of course you realise again that you are just watching A New Hope. And the freshness just quickly melts away.

Obviously the other faults of the film have been discussed hundreds of times already, so I won't dwell on them too much. But primarily there was a lot that needed addressing that just didn't really get the attention it required. Plus a lot of too daft for me plot points by the end still kind of kill the story, and I disliked that final fight in the snow - in particular the way in which it ended.

And the horrific telegraphing of Han's
demise at the hands of Ren
will haunt me forever.

(I'll spoiler that still just incase someone still hasn't watched it.... o_O :laugh: )

However, all that aside it's not the total disaster I first had it written down to be, and there is some value in watching it as part of the bigger picture. Plus I double billed it with The Last Jedi which for me definitely helped with managing the experience.
 
So I've boxed my re-watch off. Firstly...

The Force Awakens - 6.5/10

I think after the relative disaster of the prequels, this was at least a breath of fresh air back into the franchise.

Visually it's a treat, mainly due in some ways to us having being treated to a horror show of visuals in the last Star Wars we saw which was Revenge of the Sith. I particularly liked when Rey first takes control of the Falcon, and thought that little battle with the Tie Fighters was excellently done.

As lucasisking "often" says :laugh: Daisy is lovely, and whilst I don't particularly rate her character, she brings an energy to the film that was much needed after the stale and quite frankly horrendous displays of Hayden and Natalie in the prequels.

Likewise John Boyega does the same with Finn, and I have always thought the idea of a Stormtrooper going rogue to help the resistance was a top notch idea. Not something I ever saw coming, and I remember watching the trailer all those years ago and getting excited at the prospect of seeing a Stormtrooper not being a Stormtrooper anymore.

The re-introduction of Han and Chewie is also most welcome, and for while on this re-watch I found myself quite enjoying the ride.

That was until of course you realise again that you are just watching A New Hope. And the freshness just quickly melts away.

Obviously the other faults of the film have been discussed hundreds of times already, so I won't dwell on them too much. But primarily there was a lot that needed addressing that just didn't really get the attention it required. Plus a lot of too daft for me plot points by the end still kind of kill the story, and I disliked that final fight in the snow - in particular the way in which it ended.

And the horrific telegraphing of Han's
demise at the hands of Ren
will haunt me forever.

(I'll spoiler that still just incase someone still hasn't watched it.... o_O :laugh: )

However, all that aside it's not the total disaster I first had it written down to be, and there is some value in watching it as part of the bigger picture. Plus I double billed it with The Last Jedi which for me definitely helped with managing the experience.

SUPER fun in the cinema, but very little re-watch value beyond looking at Oscar Isaac for long periods of time.
Adam Driver gets a decent chance to build his petulance and desperation and is a solid foundation of the torn-up mess he gets to become in TLJ.
It's a very shallow movie other than that. 90% lip service to the original trilogy which, like you say, after the prequels was not a terrible idea. Unfortunately the remaining 10% is nonsense like the rolling tentacle aliens...
 
SUPER fun in the cinema, but very little re-watch value....
Have to agree. I really enjoyed this at the cinema, but have only bothered rewatching it once and I was bored through a lot of it.
 
SUPER fun in the cinema, but very little re-watch value beyond looking at Oscar Isaac for long periods of time.
Adam Driver gets a decent chance to build his petulance and desperation and is a solid foundation of the torn-up mess he gets to become in TLJ.
It's a very shallow movie other than that. 90% lip service to the original trilogy which, like you say, after the prequels was not a terrible idea. Unfortunately the remaining 10% is nonsense like the rolling tentacle aliens...

Yeah as I said you could dwell on a many number of things if you wanted to. I didn't even bother going to the tentacle monster! :laugh:

I'm going to talk about Ren more when I post my Last Jedi thoughts, as it's much easier to
talk about his character as a whole across the two films.

Poe actually does very little for me, and again I'll mention him more too in the next one.
 
Yeah as I said you could dwell on a many number of things if you wanted to. I didn't even bother going to the tentacle monster! :laugh:

I'm going to talk about Ren more when I post my Last Jedi thoughts, as it's much easier to
talk about his character as a whole across the two films.

Poe actually does very little for me, and again I'll mention him more too in the next one.

Look at this guy.
Don't tell me you wouldn't. :laugh:

Isaac.png
 
Done with the original trilogy. I have no idea just how many times I have watched these films, but it's probably way too many. Obviously these films have been talked to death but here are my thoughts....
  • Empire's clearly best, then A New Hope, then Jedi.
  • Even though some people see Jedi as a step down, it's still excellent and has some standout moments. I also love the way it actually ends the debt/price on his head that was set up with Han Solo from the first movie. A prime example of how to lay down threads of a plot and then fully resolve them.
  • But - watching these after the prequels, it's clear that Lucas has ignored vast parts of the lore that was drummed into our young minds. Was Anakin "already a great pilot" really referring to pod-racing and his luck in the Phantom Menace battle. I don't think so. There are lots of complaints about Rian Johnson and TLJ but I still think the massive changes that Lucas made were still far more detrimental.
  • Of the Special Edition changes, Jedi fares the worse by far. Nonsense changes in Jabba's Palace, inc some needless moving Fett around the room and then back again. It combines Lucas' terrible comic sensibilities with the need to explain away everything. Hugely annoying. And that's before we get to "nooooooo"
  • But the death star battle in ANH is a huge improvement - I'd like to see all the special edition changes wiped away apart from that. No chance, alas.
  • McDiarmid is at his dialed-back nastiest. Hopefully, we'll see this again in the new film.
  • It's also notable how well-paced the whole Death Star scenes are in ANH. Everything holds together really well and no time is wasted. What happened to that director?
  • And finally - Anthony Daniels is really very good throughout - in a way he hasn't been since. Shouty, nasty to R2, clearly very annoying to Han Solo, really quite cowardly - the character just works very well here. Hopefully, we'll get a little more of that in the new movie.
Anyway - they're all still great, despite the Lucas tinkerings. Onto The Force Awakens!
 

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