Question SA30 as processor for front two channels

rc789

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Does anyone have experience in using the Arcam SA30 or possibly 10/20 in processor mode running Dirac? I've teamed it up with an AVR550 and when I run Dirac the delays are not configuring properly and I have an echo. Left and right show no delay and the other speakers show 46.00ms. Everything appears to be plugged in correctly and I've run a few integrated and AVR combos in the past without issue. I've tried a few different volume levels for processor mode and I've varied the gain on the UMIK 1. Both amps are running the latest software. Dirac had not been configured on the SA30. I shouldn't think it's a setting within the SA30 as I'd assume processor mode bypasses all of that and uses the power amps only?
 
I've done this with an SA10 and SA20 with zero issues and tomorrow will have an SA30 to also try it with. I just set the required SAx0 input to be the AV input so the volume is turned up and then set the AV volume trim for the input, I think the default was quite low so had to tunr it up a bit to ensure the AVR did not have to over compensate, but can't quite remember to what level, but it may have been 70-75 or something, would gradually test if you do this before I confirm... I plan to give Dirac a go in the SA30 for HiFi (against my better judgement and just to have a play), and am hoping to can assign Dirac per input, so say have Dirac on for CD or Phono but not for AV and in that instance the AVR does the Dirac.
 
Do you use the processor mode or not then?
Have you setup the SA models with an Arcam AVR? They have the same remote code out of the box so that’s another challenge which I think can be overcome by reprogramming one of the remotes and then teaching harmony the commands which would be used. I went for the SA30 as it was ex demo so good price and it has a higher power rating than the AVR. I know items can be a bit buggy in the early day’s so could be a bug. Just strikes me as odd as I have had no issues in the past using HT bypass on amps but they’ve always been different manufacturers and never class G technology.
 
I’m pretty sure you can select by input on the SA30 and you can store 3 curves in the unit itself. As far as I can tell the AVR550 only stores one.
 
Right so I plug the SA30 into the pre-out from the AVR550 say on input STB, set that input to be the Processor Mode input (PM) then turn the gain up from the default of 30 to 68, this is exactly the level I set my SA20 to previously now I remember.. Haven't tried Dirac yet, but will have a play tomorrow if the house is quiet...
 
And yes the remote clashes, I’ll have to change the SA30 to something different, should be easier doing the SA instead of the AVR.. My SA was quite buggy when I got it, but had the initial release FW, I upped it to 1.6 and seemed better, then upped it to the latest and it became buggy again until I did a factory reset of the settings (like the instructions say)...
 
Right I think I’ve reproduced the echo, analogue inputs can be put into direct or non-direct mode, I don’t get the issue with direct on, but I think if you turn direct off even with no Dirac, the amp processes the signal, maybe converts analogue to digital processes and converts back, and this I suspect is adding an odd delay that creates your funny echo..
 
Oh right. I’ve not tried anything with the SA30 for days and have contacted the retailer informing them I wish to return it. I didn’t want to listen to the amp any more because it was so good and I didn’t want to remember what I would be missing! I’ll have a look into that then. Can that be changed through the buttons in the amp as I only have a PJ which is connected to the AVR? Funnily enough i was oriGinally thinking I would change the SA30 code but Arcam Suggested the AVR. I had a little think about it and unsure now. Ended up getting an iPhone as the support for android isn’t there on the Arcam control app nor their music life or whatever it’s called. I had initially thought I could control the amp with my phone and the AVR with the harmony assuming I could control through the app which I’m guessing is IP control? Possibly put a trigger from AVR to SA30. Would that work both ways or is it defined by trigger out or in as to which ones power on? In case that’s unclear I mean that the trigger would turn the SA30 on when the AVR powers on but if I powered only the SA30 on the AVR wouldn’t startup.
thanks for your replies to date.
 
The retailer who’s had training and experience in Dirac told me to keep the mic gain at max and lower the output volume. He said it factors in noises such as the projector. Completely the opposite of what I’d taken from Terry Ellis on YT.
 
For direct on the analogue input of the SA30 you just press direct on the remote (next to the amp button) you’ll see it toggle on / off on the SA30 screen, it needs to be on for the AV input to bypass all processing including Dirac on the SA30.
I was thinking change the SA30 simply because whichever remote I change I’ll have to teach my harmony all the new codes and I suspected the SA30 would be less codes to teach the SA30..
Not sure about the trigger, I don’t see even a trigger output, let alone an input. What I’d do is if I can change the remote codes, then I‘d just get the Harmony to turn the AVR on and also turn on the SA30, although haven’t spent enough time with it yet to work out how / if it can be done.
Yes app is IP.
I think for Dirac, set the SA30 analogue input to Processor Mode, set gain / volume fixed level for PM to 68’ish, then run Dirac on the AVR550 for AV as you normally would, it should run pretty similar to before with no SA30. Then for the SA30 when listenending to music Sources, run Dirac for your two channel stuff (if you want) and assign it to the inputs used by music sources.. Some people don’t particularly like processing on music, I don’t normally, but want to give it a try. When I tried it on the AVR550 is was interested to hear what it did, it was different, better in some ways, but not in every way and I ultimately preferred an external HiFi amp anyway. I want to give the SA30 and Dirac a go for the hell of it, so have an open mind on the results..
 
As do I.
One benefit i found was in adding the sub however as I have a rel in addition to my HT sub or subs I’d look to hook that up to the SA30 as I find it integrates and performs better than the SVS subs which are ported although one has an option to seal but it’s a bit of faffing about. It does then mean I have to run fronts as large or disconnect /turn off the real for AVR usage which again is faffing about.
 
So I’m finding pretty good results with the SA30, sounds pretty nice and works pretty reliably. I’ve set it to run on the alternate RC codes and switched its remote to match so it now doesn’t clash with my AVR550. For AV I have that analogue input set to processor mode at a volume of 68, I’ve also made sure Dirac is off for that input and set it to direct on so there’s no weird processing delay and the signal is unmolested. For music I played with MusicLife but didn’t find it great. Casting & Airplay are better, but I find Roon works great and am currently comparing this against my external streamer.
 
Thanks for the update. I can confirm mine is now running properly after your advice. I’ve not had a chance to recalibrate yet. How do you go about reprogramming the remote? Hopefully not what you’ve been doing since Thursday:D
All my music is currently streamed so MusicLife didn’t look suitable at a glance. I’ve only just started casting which sounds alright so far. Prior to that I’d been running off my node2i with MQA pass through on which seems to play the files. If i set external MQA Dac in the node then the file shows as HR only. I’m not sure about the SA30 MQA playability but how I have it hooked up seems to work according to the app. I’m using an optical spdif at the moment but I think the internet is telling me coaxial is better? So maybe that’s how the SA30 deals with MQA through digital connections.
 
For the remote first change the amp to use system code 19, your remote should then no longer work. Then you have to unlock the amp function on the remote, hold the amp & 6 key for 3 seconds until the remote led flashes 3 times, then type 369 and the remote should flash either 3 or 5 times, if it flashes 3 it’s locked to Arcam amp default (system 16) percent so type 369 again until it toggles time flash 5 times to indicate it’s unlocked so can be changed. Once amp function is unlocked press a key, say volume down to exit that programming mode. Then press amp & 1 For 3 seconds to enter programming mode, the Led should light up and stay on, then point the remote at the amp and type 002 to pick system 19 codes, If it’s successful the amp should turn off to confirm it can be controlled, the press the amp key again to exit programming mode..
 
Okay great. I read something like that online but didn’t realise it was a relatively quick change and had been concerned everything had to be reprogrammed. Phew. It sounds like you’ve run Dirac on the amp. What have you noticed?
 
I’ve noticed it’s different, first off didn’t like the results, so played again and again, have 3 curves now, all done with my UMIK mic facing the speakers rather than at the ceiling / 90 degs like you do for AV. Mini DSP recommend this way, but I may also try upwards tbh.. I’m a bit lazy so did it only on 3 points so far, my last one just done with the curtain pulled back to 300hz sounds best, I’d say it sounds almost as good as direct, but don’t think my room has massive issues to overcome tbh. To me it sounds a smidge less dynamic, almost looses a bit of speed, but I think to do it justice I need to play with it a bit more and also measure more points. It certainly sound less worse than my AVR550 did with Dirac and music.. I think it’s probably much harder to improve music with Dirac coming from just the front, whereas with AV it can make all the surround speakers sound much more cohesive a lot more easily... Will continue to play, I’m impressed with the amp just want to play with Dirac more..
 
I haven’t had a chance to run Dirac but I can hear quite a difference between stereo from the AVR with Dirac on and just the amp. Not always in a better way so I think my environment would probably benefit from the Dirac setup. Do i plug in to RCA from laptop using phone to stereo cable?
I’m still having issues with harmony as well. It won’t do much other than volume controls. Sometimes it can turn the amp on if I press it several times. I’ve reset all delays in the remote to no avail. ill delete it and start again I think as I had a few setup issues so I may have confused it. Did you teach it all power options, just toggle or just on and off?
 
For direct on the analogue input of the SA30 you just press direct on the remote (next to the amp button) you’ll see it toggle on / off on the SA30 screen, it needs to be on for the AV input to bypass all processing including Dirac on the SA30.
I was thinking change the SA30 simply because whichever remote I change I’ll have to teach my harmony all the new codes and I suspected the SA30 would be less codes to teach the SA30..
Not sure about the trigger, I don’t see even a trigger output, let alone an input. What I’d do is if I can change the remote codes, then I‘d just get the Harmony to turn the AVR on and also turn on the SA30, although haven’t spent enough time with it yet to work out how / if it can be done.
Yes app is IP.
I think for Dirac, set the SA30 analogue input to Processor Mode, set gain / volume fixed level for PM to 68’ish, then run Dirac on the AVR550 for AV as you normally would, it should run pretty similar to before with no SA30. Then for the SA30 when listenending to music Sources, run Dirac for your two channel stuff (if you want) and assign it to the inputs used by music sources.. Some people don’t particularly like processing on music, I don’t normally, but want to give it a try. When I tried it on the AVR550 is was interested to hear what it did, it was different, better in some ways, but not in every way and I ultimately preferred an external HiFi amp anyway. I want to give the SA30 and Dirac a go for the hell of it, so have an open mind on the results..
Dunno if i should replace it with the SA30 or just go for a power amp as my music sessions have reduced lately.

Thanks.
 
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Ideally yes as the analogue to digital conversion adds delay, that or calibrate that AVR again after (if direct is not on) so it can detect and compensate for the delay - direct is the MUCH better solution. HiFi amp really ups the game as the pre-amp really makes a difference for music if you want that.
 
That NAD M32 looks like a decent bit of kit. You could always go for the SA30 plus an Arcam power amp with the receiver. You’d then get good quality 2 channel plus you could effectively add a power amp to your home theatre setup. You can also bi amp in this configuration the SA30 plus power amp. In order for this to make sense you’d need to get a class G power amp. Sticking with Arcam throughout seems to be a logical option to get the most out of your system to match the gain. I know that’s adding cost but that NAD isn’t cheap and a used SA30/ ex demo plus a similar PA might be somewhere in the region of the NAD. I thought I got a reasonable deal on my SA30 until TNMN suggested he had something even better which was a few hundred below mine! I run BluOS from a Node 2i. I like it a lot and the Radio Paradisr integrated channels are usually a great listen if you don’t want to find something on another service. Assuming you like the kind of music they play.
 
And if you have a harmony remote my advice would be teach it alternative AVR codes as all I use Is menu, 4 arrows and volume I think. Wish I’ve had done it that way round. When I tried to turn the SA30 remote back to code 16 it failed so I just gave up. I’ve recently rolled the SA30 back to v521 and the remote sensor works a lot better. It’s missing one feature that I did utilise, although I can’t think at the moment what that was. I think it was in the audio settings menu.
 
I run BluOS from a Node 2i. I like it a lot and the Radio Paradisr integrated channels are usually a great listen if you don’t want to find something on another service. Assuming you like the kind of music they play.
Well leaning towards the SA30 or a PA240 power amp for now.
 
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Yes. Works great with AVR. Not having direct on was the only issue, and the remotes sharing the same code out of the box which can be changed. I occasionally listen to mqa files. All listening is streamed so nothing higher than 96 so far. I may regret saying this but no distortion so far. I’ve only recently run Dirac and then I moved my speakers so don’t really use it. I believe the issue only occurs with Dirac active but don’t hold me to that. The SA30 does have issues and I did wonder whether I should have gone with another brand or if i had the SA30 first I may not have gone for the 550 as I’d be achieveing what I wanted for 2 channel. My other option was a Denon 6400 but I’m glad I went down the Arcam route as I briefly went back to my Marantz and it sounded lifeless compared to the Arcam. When I got the marantz after the pioneer 701 it sounds amazing so it’s no slouch but in a different league in my opinion.
 
Standby mode does not show device (SA30) in Arcam app in v521. That’s what I miss.
 
Well my SA30 just did an OTA upgrade whilst it was disabled in the menu. :facepalm:
 

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