Sealed Subwoofer options for LS50 Wireless

sfhussain1

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Hi all,

Been following the thread a lot and found lots of helpful posts from knowledgeable people!

I recently bought a KEF LS50 Wireless system. The sound is amazing but it's lacking in the bass department. I have read in a lot of posts that the LS50s have serious bass for their size but it guess it was their opinion. I like a good amount of bass with my music so a bit of background might help everyone to give me better feedback.

The speakers are in my bedroom of dimensions 18.5 ft x 15 ft x 10.5 ft (ceiling height). Concrete floors and solid walls. They are sitting on KEF Performance stands. Now the thing is I have never heard a sealed subwoofer before. All my subwoofers till now is ported and I live in a country where auditioning is not possible, atleast not the subs I want.

I like my bass loud but balanced. I want to have the chest thump but with clean bass, not sacrificing the mids and highs. Occasionally I would like to have the headroom to crank it up for action movies:D. I've gone through tons of "Sealed vs Ported" posts and I think I would like to try a Sealed subwoofer since I will listen primarily to music with occasional movie viewing. I'm all in for their fast timing and no overhang. I'm just scared if the sealed subs will have too low of an output and too lean compared to the "heavy ported sound" I'm used to.

I am thinking of three subwoofer models specifically and I am planning to go dual setup (one for each LS50 :D). They are:

1. KEF Kube 12b
2. SVS SB2000
3. SVS SB3000

The KEF Kubes because I guess KEF with KEF will blend in better? How are the SVS SB2000 compared to the KEF Kubes? They have very similar prices. I'm considering the dual SB3000 ONLY if you guys think the other two will not give me enough bass to satisfy my inner basshead :rolleyes: according to my room dimensions (Pushing my budget quite a lot though).

I have tried the LS50 wireless with the subwoofer of my previous system ... DRUMROLL ..... Logitech Z5500! Yes the single 10 inch PORTED subwoofer crossed in to around 75 to 80Hz from the KEF control app and I was actually quite satisfied with that. For me any sub is better than no sub with the LS50s. So you guys can have a point of reference :laugh:. I guess any of the subs above will eat the Logitech subwoofer for breakfast right? RIGHT?

Apologies for the huge post but hopefully someone with experience with these subs would chime in.

Cheers!
 
What are you currently using for an AMP?

If the Logitech Sub works. I'm not sure you nee dto go as far as the SVS SB2000, consider the SVS SB1000 for considerably less -

SVS SB1000, 12", 300w, 24hz to 260hz @ -3db - US$499 - 3.5" (H) 13" (W) 14" (D)-

SB-1000

SVS SB2000, 12", 500w, 19hz to 220hz @ -3db - US$699 - 14.6" (H) 14.2" (W) 15.4" (D)


SB-2000

If you have access to the UK/EU market, then consider these BK Subs, both Sealed -

BK Electronics, XLS-200 - FF & DF - 10", 275w, 17hz@-6db - £340 -

Dimensions: 390D X 298H x 298W

XLS200-FF

XLS200-DF

BK Electronics XXLS-400 - FF & DF - 12", 400w, 20hz In Room - £460 -

Dimensions: 450D x 400H x 400W

XXLS400-FF

XXLS400-DF

Also consider -

BK Electronics P12-300 - DF & FF - 12", 300w, 20hz In Room - £399 -

Dimensions: 400D x 460H x 400W

Platinum P12300-SB

Platinum P12300-SB-FF

It will matter what amp or Pre/Amp you have because the degree of Full Bass Management will matter relative to the Sub you choose.

In a Stereo system, primarily for music, I would be more inclined to go with a 10" Subwoofer. That way there isn't a gross difference between the Size of the Front and Sub.

BK Electronics
does ship to the EU, but I don't know what the shipping cost is. I would guess that a single BK XLS-200 would get the job done for you and for considerably less money.

In Kef, I'm more thinking the Kef Kube 10B -

Kube10b Subwoofer

10", 300w, 24hz@-3db, 370 x 353 x 370mm (14.6 x 13.9 x 14.6in.)

Again, the amp you are using matters, so we need to clear that up.

LS50 Frequency Response is as follows -

Frequency Range - 47Hz - 45kHz (-6dB)

Frequency Response - 79Hz - 28kHz (±3dB)

The long slow roll-off makes it difficult to determine where the crossover would be assuming you don't have Bass Management. I would say split the difference between 50hz (47hz) and 80hz (79hz), that would be 50hz plus 15hz or 65hz.

Though there is room to try different settings, best guess a Sub Crossover Setting of about 65hz would work well. That means the Sub would cover everything from roughly 25hz up to about 65hz. That should fill out the bottom end nicely.

The Sub Crossover would have to be LESS THAN 80hz for the smoothest integration, though again, with that long slow roll-off, in the range of 65hz would work well.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Another shout for BK here. I’m using a P1230-SB in my 5.1 system, and a XXLS400 in my stereo system. I’ve not compared them directly, but I’ve heard them both enough in various configurations that for music in a stereo system I’d recommend the XXLS400 - it’s just a little more taught and tuneful.

Both great VFM though.
 
No Amplifier. I am using the KEF LS50 Wireless (Active speakers) and I will use the Subwoofer out from the master speaker.

Regarding the Logitech subwoofer, I'm satisfied because any bass is better than no bass, or very little in case of the LS50 Wireless playing on their own. I know the quality of the bass is nowhere near what should be paired with the LS50. The Logitech subwoofer convinced me that a subwoofer is a must for my setup (the Z5500 is a proper ported 10 inch sub, not the other tiny desktop 6 inch ones) Listening to the LS50s was a revelation from all the speakers I am used to from before (my first venture into proper hifi) and I need a subwoofer to match in terms of sound quality.

My first worry is that if the sealed SB2000 or KEF Kube 12b will be lower in output than the Logitech as I have never heard a sealed before but have read in a lot of forums about their good sound quality but lack of output. So even a 188W 10 inch Logitech can be louder than 1 300W 12 inch Kube 12b or a 500W 12 inch SB2000? Therefore I'm thinking of getting 2 to brute force their way out of it while also delivering more even bass throughout my room and the added benefits of the "Sealed" sound quality preference for music. It's going to be a long term investment, no trial and error possible, and sadly no audition possible, that's why I am considering the 800W SB3000 even for headroom just to be safe (I can always dial it down an overpowered sub but I can't overdrive an underpowered sub).

What are you currently using for an AMP?

If the Logitech Sub works. I'm not sure you nee dto go as far as the SVS SB2000, consider the SVS SB1000 for considerably less -

SVS SB1000, 12", 300w, 24hz to 260hz @ -3db - US$499 - 3.5" (H) 13" (W) 14" (D)-

SB-1000

SVS SB2000, 12", 500w, 19hz to 220hz @ -3db - US$699 - 14.6" (H) 14.2" (W) 15.4" (D)


SB-2000

If you have access to the UK/EU market, then consider these BK Subs, both Sealed -

BK Electronics, XLS-200 - FF & DF - 10", 275w, 17hz@-6db - £340 -

Dimensions: 390D X 298H x 298W

XLS200-FF

XLS200-DF

BK Electronics XXLS-400 - FF & DF - 12", 400w, 20hz In Room - £460 -

Dimensions: 450D x 400H x 400W

XXLS400-FF

XXLS400-DF

Also consider -

BK Electronics P12-300 - DF & FF - 12", 300w, 20hz In Room - £399 -

Dimensions: 400D x 460H x 400W

Platinum P12300-SB

Platinum P12300-SB-FF

It will matter what amp or Pre/Amp you have because the degree of Full Bass Management will matter relative to the Sub you choose.

In a Stereo system, primarily for music, I would be more inclined to go with a 10" Subwoofer. That way there isn't a gross difference between the Size of the Front and Sub.

BK Electronics
does ship to the EU, but I don't know what the shipping cost is. I would guess that a single BK XLS-200 would get the job done for you and for considerably less money.

In Kef, I'm more thinking the Kef Kube 10B -

Kube10b Subwoofer

10", 300w, 24hz@-3db, 370 x 353 x 370mm (14.6 x 13.9 x 14.6in.)

Again, the amp you are using matters, so we need to clear that up.

LS50 Frequency Response is as follows -

Frequency Range - 47Hz - 45kHz (-6dB)

Frequency Response - 79Hz - 28kHz (±3dB)

The long slow roll-off makes it difficult to determine where the crossover would be assuming you don't have Bass Management. I would say split the difference between 50hz (47hz) and 80hz (79hz), that would be 50hz plus 15hz or 65hz.

Though there is room to try different settings, best guess a Sub Crossover Setting of about 65hz would work well. That means the Sub would cover everything from roughly 25hz up to about 65hz. That should fill out the bottom end nicely.

The Sub Crossover would have to be LESS THAN 80hz for the smoothest integration, though again, with that long slow roll-off, in the range of 65hz would work well.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
 
I have never heard a sealed before but have read in a lot of forums about their good sound quality but lack of output. So even a 188W 10 inch Logitech can be louder than 1 300W 12 inch Kube 12b or a 500W 12 inch SB2000?

I won’t make judgements about the Logitech sub as I’ve never heard one, but I am very confident that you’ll find your limit long before you find the limit of a BK XXLS400 (for example).
 
[QUOTE="sfhussain1, post: 27197280, member: 833694"...

My first worry is that if the sealed ... will be lower in output than the Logitech as I have never heard a sealed before but have read in a lot of forums about their good sound quality but lack of output.....[/QUOTE]

A 10" woofer is more than 5 TIMES larger than a typical 5.25" Woofer. So there is that for a start.

The LS50-Wireless are pretty powerful with (apparently) 200w to the bass driver, 30w to the Tweeter. But Power does not equal volume. When you Double the power, you get a slight increase in the perceived output.

I can't say with absolute certainty, but I would expect any of the 10" Subs to go plenty loud. Now they might sound a bit restrained compared to a Big Box/Big Port Subwoofer, but for Stereo/HiFi that's kind of what you want. You don't want flabby thunder (slightly exaggerated), you want smooth tight controlled sound. Though of course, you are free to choose what you want. I don't think we can guarantee that a Sealed Sub will do this, we can only say that a Sealed Sub is more likely to do this.

The BK Subs as an example, are very popular and many of the members of this forum have them, and seem pretty much universally satisfied. Plus there is the Bonus of them coming in a wide range of cabinet finishes, so more likely to have a choice to match your decor.

You absolutely can't go wrong with an SVS Sub, and the 12" Sub while bit large are not huge. But a 12" Bass Driver is just short of EIGHT TIMES (7.84x) larger than a 5.25" Bass Driver. My concern is that a 12" is going to push such a greater volume of air that even when turned down, the volume of air alone will overwhelm that main 5.25" Bass Driver.

Now, I didn't say that will happen, I only speculated that it could. Equally there is a huge element of personal preference here. Since I'm not a total bass head, I'm more inclined to go with 10". Relatively speaking 8" Subs don't go quite deep enough, 12", for a music system, I speculate might be overkill, which leaves a 10" in the Sweet Spot, or in what I consider the sweet spot.

In general I would not expect a Logitech Sub to outperform any of the Subs being suggested here. I would expect these all to be in a different league than the Logitech. Currently you can buy a complete Logitech Z-5500 5.1 system for about £350, I would very much expect the suggested Subs to beat that -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Digital-Multimedia-Theatre-Speaker/dp/B0006HBCL8/

Looking at the specs, I think the Sub for the Z-5500 has at best 188watts. In systems like this that are not truly classified as Hi-Fi, they tend to fudge a bit on the specs.

Generally, Subs are intended to go about 10db higher that standard Front Speakers. The peak levels for the Front/Center speakers in a Surround system are intended to peak at about 105dB, the Subs are intended to peak at about 115dB. Again, that is the general specs, it doesn't necessarily apply to any one specific speaker.

In short ... don't worry about it.

Again, my personal Bias is showing, but the BK-XLS-200 10", the Kef Kube 10B (10"), some suggested a 10" B&W I believe, and most certainly the SVS SB1000 or SVS SB2000 would work. You just have to work out the details of your Room and your system, and of course you wallet, and make a decision.

A 10" is about Five Times bigger than a 5.25", and a 12" is about 7.8 Time larger than a 5.25" driver. So, there is that to consider.

Using this best guess data -

Typically, from the edge of the speaker to the center of the surround is about 0.75"; verified on both a 5.25" speaker and a 12" speaker. So, the above have been recalculated using effective diameters 1.5" (0.75x2) less that the speaker diameter.

4.00" = 4.91 sq.in. = 1.00
5.00" = 9.62 sq.in. = 1.96
5.25" = 11.05 sq.in. = 2.25
6.00" = 15.90 sq.in. = 3.24
6.50" = 19.64 sq.in. = 4.00
7.00" = 23.76 sq.in. = 4.48
8.00" = 33.18 sq.in. = 6.76
10.0" = 56.75 sq.in. = 11.56
12.0" = 86.59 sq.in. = 17.64
15.0" = 143.14 sq.in. = 29.16



Just a few random thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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Let me also suggest the Martin Logan Dynamo 800x.

It is a sealed 10" 600w (peak) with built in Anthem Room Correction. The Anthem makes blending with your mains and your specific room nodes quick and painless. It is compact (only about a foot cubed) and has a downfiring orientation, which really enhances the look IMO. Seems a good match sonically and aesthetically with your LS50Ws.

I have two to complement my bookshelf speakers in a 2.2 music only system and they are fantastic, highly recommended.
MartinLogan | Dynamo 800X
 
If you're determined to use two subwoofers then I'd also suggest 10" drivers in a sealed cabinet as a good match for the room size. However, if you're a real bass-head, you could employ a pair of 12" sealed subs such as the BK XXLS400 - but maybe start with just one and see how you find it.

I agree with your point about sealed vs ported - it's a compromise: quality vs quantity. However, use enough driver radiating area and amplifier power and a sealed box design will give the necessary output/volume, whereas a ported box (or passive radiator design) can never produce truly clean bass.

Note that an avforums reviewer described bass quality from the BK XXLS400 as "Very clean upper bass, regardless of price." I think a really tight upper bass is important in providing a seamless blend with 'fast' speakers the KEFs.

Also, depending on the bass management available, you should still get great results from the XXLS400/KEF combination if you choose a high sub/sat crossover frequency (100Hz or so - should bass management allow it) which would have the advantage of removing considerable bass burden from the small KEFs. Usually, when a small speaker is relieved of mid and deep bass duties, it sounds cleaner and certainly plays louder.
 

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