Question Simplicity of soundbar real 5.1 surround

engr

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I don't know what category I should post this under. I'm in early planning stages of a basic home theater upgrade.
I like the simplicity of a soundbar instead of an AV receiver, but I want true 5.1 sound with good speakers, not the soundbar quality.
What I want is a 5.1 system with wireless sub that doesn't need a separate AV receiver...or a center channel speaker with the built in amp like a soundbar that I can wire the L & R speakers to, or something like that...but I also want the wireless sub which drives the rear speakers.
Does anything close to this exist in the <$500 range? Is it called something else that I haven't thought of?
 
When you say simplicity do you mean less boxes or simplicity of use?
A soundbar can cut down of the number of items but is no simpler to use that an AVR.
 
The only soundbar that I've heard deliver a realist surround system is by Yamaha, the YSP-2700 is widely regarded as an accomplished that can recreate an effective surround sound experience, these will never out perform a dedicated 5.1 surround sound system, but where soundbar's are concerned they as close as you can get to the real thing without having a load of speakers scattered around the room

In order to fine tune the speaker placements, I would down load the app and spend some time playing with the positions and trust your own ears, if you don't, you may never truly appreciate what it has to offer
 
I want separate boxes (speakers) for quality, but I want the simplicity of a soundbar that turns on when the TV turns on and doesn't need input switching. (I will switch inputs in the TV, and all devices will be plugged into TV.)
Thank you for the replies.
 
sounds like you need a harmony remote so you can configure everything to switch on with 1 button
 
Well, I also have no use for the "features" of an AV receiver (audio modes, etc.). I only need to adjust the volume.
 
What I need is to take a soundbar apart and wire up my own speakers instead of the soundbar drivers, haha. I really want the wireless sub & rear speakers feature too.
 
This is disappointing. I did a bit more research, and it looks like the only way I can get wireless rear speakers without a soundbar is with a wireless bridge plugged into a receiver (or a receiver with wireless capabilities such as https://www.cnet.com/news/yamaha-adds-wireless-rear-capabilities-to-2018-receivers/ ). Which puts it way out of my budget of $500.

So I guess I need the soundbar to get the wireless rear. Which is a bummer because I expect the soundbar drivers to be inferior to my bookshelf speakers I have in my current 2.0 system.

If anyone has ideas, I appreciate them. Again, what I want is:
  • 5.1 surround system
  • With separate L-C-R speakers which may be wired
  • Rear L & R which must be wireless
  • Sub may be wired or wireless
  • Simplicity of user experience regarding switching input devices, and turning on as few devices as possible. (The harmony remote is not a bad idea @Venrith ...it's just that I don't feel I need the features of an AV receiver besides volume control.)
 
Have you looked at the Denon heos AVR? It supports wireless and wired speakers
 
@Queens Pawn Thanks, I had not looked at that before, but it's too pricey. It's $600 just for the receiver and I'm trying to keep the whole surround system under $500.

Question: I keep saying I don't need the AV Receiver features, so is there an amplifier that just deals with 5.1 audio from ARC from TV, that's not a an AV receiver since it doesn't deal with video, for a cheap price?

Edit: Cancel that idea...I don't even know where I'm going with this. I did find some HDMI-to-5.1 extractor gadgets in the <$100 range, and I guess I'm thinking something like:
[TV ARC output] -> [HDMI-to-5.1 exctractor] -> [5.1 amp] -> [wireless bridge for rear speakers].
But in the beginning I wanted simplicity! And this is not simple at all, unless the last three features are combined in one device for a couple hundred $.
 
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So I think the best solution would be to use a 5.1 AV receiver with just one thing plugged into it--the ARC output from TV (sounds stupid). And using the Harmony remote to adjust volume on receiver (sounds stupid). And wireless speaker kits are available for the <$150 range for the rear speakers.
That's the closest way I find to replicate the soundbar-with-wireless-rears but using good quality speakers. Thoughts?
 
AV receiver with just one thing plugged into it--the ARC output from TV (sounds stupid). And using the Harmony remote to adjust volume on receiver (sounds stupid)
HDMI ARC is not stupid and works nowadays mostly very good. Harmony is probably not needed because HDMI includes CEC function too, so you can use TV remote to control receiver volume.
Problems may increase if receiver or TV is older model when HDMI handshake problems were more common.

Also all wireless systems need electricity anyway and wires, they are just more behind your seating. Replacing one cable to another for additional costs including wireless problems is another question. So special wireless system in same room sounds stupid ;)
 
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HDMI ARC is not stupid and works nowadays mostly very good. Harmony is probably not needed because HDMI includes CEC function too, so you can use TV remote to control receiver volume.
Problems may increase if receiver or TV is older model when HDMI handshake problems were more common.

Also all wireless systems need electricity anyway and wires, they are just more behind your seating. Replacing one cable to another for additional costs including wireless problems is another question. So special wireless system in same room sounds stupid ;)

Thanks for the reply @citywalker . I meant it "sounds stupid" to buy an AV Receiver with all those input ports, but the only one I need to use is the ARC connection for TV. Sounds like overkill...there's got to be a better way. But that's good to know about the volume control with CEC function. I need to look into that more.

And yes, I'll add a "sounds stupid" for the wireless rears...but I want it because I can't run the wires that way.
 
How can receiver be overkill, if you want not only arc but ^decent audio quality ^...? This is what receiver offers, arc etc is just bonus.
If audio quality is not important, then your mentioned soundbar with wireless rears is the best choice.
 
@citywalker I guess I'm assuming that bookshelf speakers would give better front channel audio than a soundbar, and I'm frustrated that I need to buy a full AV receiver just to take the audio from a single HDMI (ARC) and send to these speakers.
 
@citywalkerI'm frustrated that I need to buy a full AV receiver just to take the audio from a single HDMI (ARC) and send to these speakers.

Well in that AVR, your also getting 5 channels of power amplification, electronic delays for setting the relative distances of your speakers along with an automated setup wizard to help you set them via test tones, probably some form of automated room EQ and bass management/electronic crossover to combine and send the low-end of your main speakers and the LFE channel to your sub. Plus a bunch of audio codecs for decoding formats your TV may not support. Plus you have HDMI switching if you ever want to plug in a blu-ray player or streaming device later on.

Given that you can pick up a low end AVR with all those features for ~£150 (maybe less secondhand), it would seem like a bit of a no-brainer to me if you want anything approaching half decent surround sound.

You can then attach any speakers you like to it and/or buy 3rd party wireless transmitters/receivers for the sub/rears. Although as citywalker points out that is far from the simple/wires free solution it might seem esp. for the rears, you still need to get power those speakers somehow and whatever powers them will need electricity and cables. A dedicated sub will likely have it's own built in amp and power supply, so a wireless connection is somewhat simpler/more practical there - although if your on a budget and want simplicity I'd stick to running a single RCA cable to the sub.

Sonos has a soundbar solution which tackles some the issues your trying to get around (no wires/unnecessary boxes). But it's outside your budget and is limited in many areas (speaker distance setting is manual, inputs and codes are limited, it only works with it's own sub/speakers).
Playbar - Wireless Soundbar | Sonos

Given your budget you're really in soundbar territory, all-in-one 5.1 boxes (which will likely come with budget speakers and be non-upgradable; I have no personal experience here but the SONY BDVN7200WB looks like it might fit your budget/needs) or looking at a traditional AVR based 5.1 setup built out of second-hand units or last years stock (would be tight, but you could do it. That would give you the best audio performance and some future proofing).
 
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In my opinion receiver is the simplest way for good surround sound...
You can buy for speakers separate system boxes, but this is way more complicated than the one small simple box.
Speakers need basic stuff:
Amplifier
Wires to connect everything
DAC or several
Surround sound needs surround processor and more amplifiers
Volume control system
Universal remote to control everything at least somekind normal level
This means 5 boxes minimum, probably more plus mess with the wires.

So if you have receiver, then this does everything and more with one click.
Very simple :D
 
Thanks for the detailed replies. I really appreciate it @citywalker and @jamieu .

If I go the soundbar with wireless rears, it would be something like the Vizio systems I can get for $350. Like the Vizio SB4551-D5.

I was budgeting $500 and hoping I could get something with bookshelf speakers that would do better front channel LCR audio than I'd get from the soundbar. All input devices plug into the smart TV, so really I just need something to take the audio (via HDMI arc presumably) and amp it to the 5.1 channels. I looked at the links you just shared...I think we agree that just doesn't make sense cost-wise.

It looks like I either go with a soundbar kit with wireless rear speakers, or I piece together my own system with an AV receiver and wireless transmitter for the rears.
 
AVR - for the most part folk plug in the Source devices, Connect up the Loudspeakers, plug in the Sub, run the Room Configuration and after that simply grab the Remote to select Input and Volume level. Nothing very different to using a Soundbar once you get past the configuration steps!

Room/Room Layout - is key to any 'surround sound' system and will dictate if an AVR/Speaker system or a Soundbar will work for you.

Source > TV > AVR/Soundbar - be aware some TV's limit you to stereo audio when passing audio from connected Source devices.

TV ARC or Optical audio - are both options to consider when connecting the TV to an AVR.

Source > AVR/Soundbar > TV - may be a better option if the AVR or Soundbar support HD audio.

2.0/2.1 - with a limited budget I would be sticking to a 2.0 or 2.1 system using Floor or Bookshelf speakers connected to an Amp with a Digital (Optical) Input and connect the 'AV' Sources to the TV then the TV Optical Out to the Amp.

Joe
 
Thanks @Joe Fernand . Good points, and I'll take into consideration. Some comments & questions....

First, I guess I never mentioned what I have right now. I have a 6 year old system all bought new, which is a 32" 720P TV connected to a Sony AVR which has Chromecast and Roku on HDMI and a DVD on composite (or component?). Speakers are bookshelf 2.0 system. And a cheap universal remote. So I want to upgrade a bit, although my standards aren't too high, haha.

Now regarding simplicity with AVR...I kind of got away from this topic in this thread, but it's important to me. Right now, when friends and family come over, it's a pain to explain how to get such-and-such input.
  • DVD? "Put amplifier on SAT, TV on AV, and use the DVD on the remote"
  • Roku? "Put amplifier on BD/DVD, TV on HDMI, and use DVR on remote"
  • Chromecast? "Put amplifier on GAME, TV on HDMI, and use DVR or DVD or AMP to adjust volume on remote"
  • TV? "Has to play through TV speakers, so put TV input to TV and you don't need the amp, so use the TV mode on remote" (the TV has no audio out)
That sounds bad enough, but it's actually worse if I need to actually spell it out, for example DVD is "On remote press TV, Power, Input, change input to AV on TV; press Amp, Power, Input until the right mode (SAT) comes up on the amplifier (which is tiny letters on the unit by the way), then press DVD to be in DVD mode on remote." There's got to be a better way.

When I go to 4K, the current AVR cannot handle 4K, so I'd need to either get a new AVR or use the inputs on the TV. If it's a smart TV, I might not need chromecast and Roku, so it's really just DVD (Blu Ray).

So that's why I thought the soundbar would be simple, although I've since learned that an AVR can be volume controlled and even turned on with CEC if I do it right. And my AVR doesn't do 4K video, but it can do ARC or optical audio etc, so I might be able to keep my AVR in the system using it solely for audio (no video).

And that leads to the other half of the thread's topic, which is would it actually be a step down in audio quality to go from $50 2.0 bookshelf speakers to a $400 5.1 soundbar system with wireless satellites? I sometimes play music too (pandora on chromecast, although I'm no audiophile. Will that be worse through the soundbar than what I have now?

Appreciate your thoughts on this, Joe, and anyone else.
 
Get yourself a programmable remote and then you/they just need to hit the one button for "Music", "Roku", "Chomecast" or whatever activities you setup.
Harmony Remotes, Universal Remote Controls | Logitech

As Joe Fernand points out, if your budget is limited and/or you speaker placement restricted you might be better off just sticking with a low-end-but-decent 2.0 or 2.1 setup (powered by an inexpensive 5.1 AVR, so you can expand later).

As for a $400 5.1 setup with wireless speakers, once you take into account that the manufacture/retailer needs to make a profit, there isn't going to be much left to offer anything in the way of decent quality components and I expect the speakers/sub will be the first to suffer.

I'd go with a couple of decent bookshelf speakers and a 5.1 AVR and then add a sub (2.1), centre (3.1) and rear surrounds (5.1) over time as budget allows. That approach also leaves you open to buying secondhand and/or using any sub you like or that you get a good deal on.
 

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