So, as there's now (in theory) going to be a delay........

Try and keep up - he explained why he didnt sign it in the second letter. It was simply to highlight that he was complying with the Law (as he promised) by sending the letter. However the request for an extension was coming from Parliament and not him - he advised against it.

Yet the bottom of the letter stated that it came from his office, hence choosing not to sign it was a deliberate petty decision to focus attention away from his failing to “see them in court” or be “dead in a ditch” rather than send the letter. The great secret plan from No10/Cummings to thwart the Benn Act was to not sign the letter :rotfl:

Also, I’m not the one who suggested that he may have just forgotten to sign it after a long day (!) so maybe it’s not me you should be responding too.
 
Yet the bottom of the letter stated that it came from his office, hence choosing not to sign it was a deliberate petty decision to focus attention away from his failing to “see them in court” or be “dead in a ditch” rather than send the letter. The great secret plan from No10/Cummings to thwart the Benn Act was to not sign the letter :rotfl:
A cunning plan worthy of Baldrick...;)
 
Yet the bottom of the letter stated that it came from his office, hence choosing not to sign it was a deliberate petty decision to focus attention away from his failing to “see them in court” or be “dead in a ditch” rather than send the letter. The great secret plan from No10/Cummings to thwart the Benn Act was to not sign the letter :rotfl:

Also, I’m not the one who suggested that he may have just forgotten to sign it after a long day (!) so maybe it’s not me you should be responding too.


I think you need to catch up on what is happening. Boris's letter stated quite clearly that it was not him who was asking for the extension.. :D


"The UK parliament representative will therefore submit the request mandated by the EU (Withdrawal) (No.2) Act 2019 later today."

:While it is open to the European council to accede to the request mandated by parliament or to offer an alternative extension period, I have made clear since becoming prime minister, and made clear to parliament again today, my view, and the government’s position, that a further extension would damage the interests of the UK and our EU partners, and the relationship between us."
 
I think you need to catch up on what is happening. Boris's letter stated quite clearly that it was not him who was asking for the extension.. :D


"The UK parliament representative will therefore submit the request mandated by the EU (Withdrawal) (No.2) Act 2019 later today."

:While it is open to the European council to accede to the request mandated by parliament or to offer an alternative extension period, I have made clear since becoming prime minister, and made clear to parliament again today, my view, and the government’s position, that a further extension would damage the interests of the UK and our EU partners, and the relationship between us."

Yet nothing about forgetting to sign the letter.
 
LOL glad you keep your eye on the important issues 😂
I'm loving how they won't let this go.

Your post was not saying that was the reason. You mentioned it (and gave equal weight to saying maybe it was deliberate) as part of a post on why the reason doesn't matter.

Yet now it's all they can bang on about.

Still, with all the egg on faces that Boris wasn't negotiating and didn't want a deal, it gives them a nice distraction.
 
I'm loving how they won't let this go.

Your post was not saying that was the reason. You mentioned it (and gave equal weight to saying maybe it was deliberate) as part of a post on why the reason doesn't matter.

Yet now it's all they can bang on about.

Still, with all the egg on faces that Boris wasn't negotiating and didn't want a deal, it gives them a nice distraction.

You keep going on about people having egg on their faces, and ignoring the clear evidence that Johnson’s ‘fantastic’ negotiating skills revolve around capitulation, doing exactly what he said no British Pm should ever do and going back to the very first WA proposed by the EU themselves...hardly world breaking skills on show, but I guess it allows you make out he’s your messiah, whilst ignoring any evidence of his actual actions.
 
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You keep going on about people having egg on their faces, and ignoring the clear evidence that Johnson’s ‘fantastic’ negotiating skills revolve around capitulation, doing exactly what he said no British Pm should ever do and going back to the very first WA proposed by the EU themselves...hardly world breaking skills on show but I guess it allows you make out he’s your messiah, whilst ignoring any evidence of his actual actions.
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy greased piglet :)
 
I had to look at the ignored content.

I wasn't missing much. Just the usual graceless moaning without acknowledgement Boris achieved what was apparently impossible.

But if this is just what the eu offered previously, I'm sure someone can provide evidence where the NI only backstop was subject to ongoing consent from the Northern Ireland assembly.

Anyone? I'm sure they are just waiting to pounce with a link proving it was part of the previous offer.
 
I had to look at the ignored content.

I wasn't missing much. Just the usual graceless moaning without acknowledgement Boris achieved what was apparently impossible.

But if this is just what the eu offered previously, I'm sure someone can provide evidence where the NI only backstop was subject to ongoing consent from the Northern Ireland assembly.

Anyone? I'm sure they are just waiting to pounce with a link proving it was part of the previous offer.

“graceless moaning”, that’s a new one. Considering before he became PM you said you didn’t like him and would vote for anyone who delivered Brexit, you have now become his biggest cheerleader on here.

So the option for Stormont, which hasn’t sat for 3 years, to have a vote every 4 years, has been added and yet the DUP are against it. Doesn’t really look like a great deal once you actually consider the effect.

Whilst I realise that you will say, again, that Macron once threatened to use the previous EU veto to retain fishing rights, I’d say it’s even less likely that Stormont will sit in 4 years’ time to vote either way, so NI continues as an EU rule-taker and Johnson has succeeded in breaking up the UK. Woohoo, what a hero achieving the impossible.
 
Graceless indeed.

Solid response. Should I have curtsied before pointing out the flaws in your adoration for his ‘impossible’ deal?
 
Yes the deal has flaws. It's a compromise following intense negotiations.

You know, that thing that apparently Boris wasn't really doing and it was all a sham. And the EU would definitely not reopen the withdrawal agreement anyway.

As I said on the day the deal was announced, there's no way the remain side could acknowledge what was achieved. Instead they'd do anything to detract from the deal.

Thanks for proving me right.
 
Yes the deal has flaws. It's a compromise following intense negotiations.

You know, that thing that apparently Boris wasn't really doing and it was all a sham. And the EU would definitely not reopen the withdrawal agreement anyway.

As I said on the day the deal was announced, there's no way the remain side could acknowledge what was achieved. Instead they'd do anything to detract from the deal.

Thanks for proving me right.
It’s pointless arguing. To some it doesn’t matter what Boris nor anyone else says. They’d never admit they have it wrong. Nor give credit for something that is undeniably good.

The deadlock was broken. The unnegotiable negotiation was reopened. The majority of the MPs actually voted in favour. Yet it’s still being denied by some.

Total waste of time. May as well argue that is black is really white.
 
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Yes the deal has flaws. It's a compromise following intense negotiations.

You know, that thing that apparently Boris wasn't really doing and it was all a sham. And the EU would definitely not reopen the withdrawal agreement anyway.

As I said on the day the deal was announced, there's no way the remain side could acknowledge what was achieved. Instead they'd do anything to detract from the deal.

Thanks for proving me right.
It’s pointless arguing. To some it doesn’t matter what Boris nor anyone else says. They’d never admit they have it wrong. Nor give credit for something that is undeniably good.

The deadlock was broken. The unnegotiable negotiation was reopened. The majority of the MPs actually voted in favour. Yet it’s still being denied by some.

Total waste of fine. May as well argue that is black is really white.

You must have both missed my post a few days ago where I said this current deal is probably the best we’re going to get. The deal itself isn’t the issue in my eyes, it’s the pedestal that you seem to be putting Johnson on as if he’s just come up with some glorious move forwards when, in reality, he’s taken the large majority of May’s deal (which he even voted against himself twice) and gone back to the original EU proposal, that May rejected, and implemented a border in the Irish Sea to separate NI from mainland Britain.

In your celebration of him removing the EU veto, in the event of the backstop actually coming into effect, by making it the front stop, you are willing to ignore him going back on his previous statement regarding cutting off NI. Yes, compromise is required in all negotiations, but at least acknowledge that without fawning over Johnson at any opportunity as it comes across as a little disingenuous.
 
Yes the deal has flaws. It's a compromise following intense negotiations.

You know, that thing that apparently Boris wasn't really doing and it was all a sham. And the EU would definitely not reopen the withdrawal agreement anyway.

As I said on the day the deal was announced, there's no way the remain side could acknowledge what was achieved. Instead they'd do anything to detract from the deal.

Thanks for proving me right.

This is what Boris did with the backstop:


Basically, he got the EU back to their preferred position of putting a border down the Irish Sea. That was in their first draft of the agreement.
 
This is what Boris did with the backstop:


Basically, he got the EU back to their preferred position of putting a border down the Irish Sea. That was in their first draft of the agreement.
Can you point to where in the first draft of the agreement it included Northern Ireland having to consent to remain in the arrangement?
 
Can you point to where in the first draft of the agreement it included Northern Ireland having to consent to remain in the arrangement?
There is an interesting article here that shows the differences between Theresa May's deal and Johnson's 'new' deal. As the link shows, less than 5% is actually new.

 
There is an interesting article here that shows the differences between Theresa May's deal and Johnson's 'new' deal. As the link shows, less than 5% is actually new.

I couldn't care less if only one word was changed in the sentence such that the EU can't veto the UK staying the EU. The facts are that that has been removed, and despite the EU saying it wasn't open for renegotiation, it ended up being open for renegotiation.

To come back with pure whataboutery to then point out the quantity of the changes is in my opinion just plain weird. I'd have thought that universally that the quantity of changes is not really a measure of how good nor how welcome the change is.

Heck if anything, the low quantity of changes demonstrates the focus on the right things and not be bothered with stuff that doesn't make a material difference anyway.
 
I couldn't care less if only one word was changed in the sentence such that the EU can't veto the UK staying the EU. The facts are that that has been removed, and despite the EU saying it wasn't open for renegotiation, it ended up being open for renegotiation.
The EU said they would only accept something equivalent to the backstop, namely something that would give them certainty that Northern Ireland will never leave alignment with EU rules. They have accepted the simple majority consent arrangements because it does exactly what the backstop did - it provides the certainty Northern Ireland will remain locked in EU rules as, given the deep and enduring partisan divisions, the pro-Brexit factions in Northern Ireland will never have a majority.
 
The EU said they would only accept something equivalent to the backstop, namely something that would give them certainty that Northern Ireland will never leave alignment with EU rules. They have accepted the simple majority consent arrangements because it does exactly what the backstop did - it provides the certainty Northern Ireland will remain locked in EU rules as, given the deep and enduring partisan divisions, the pro-Brexit factions in Northern Ireland will never have a majority.
Unless Stormont chooses to leave such an arrangement, without a veto to stop that from happening by the EU.
 
Unless Stormont chooses to leave such an arrangement, without a veto to stop that from happening by the EU.
The EU don't need a veto - the politics of Northern Ireland provide that without any external intervention. In many ways, the 'Northern Ireland consent' mechanism gives the EU much more certainty than the backstop. It is quite remarkable that a Conservative Prime Minister would sign up to such a severe and enduring blow to the Union.
 
The EU don't need a veto - the politics of Northern Ireland provide that without any external intervention. In many ways, the 'Northern Ireland consent' mechanism gives the EU much more certainty than the backstop. It is quite remarkable that a Conservative Prime Minister would sign up to such a severe and enduring blow to the Union.
Well, they have a choice now they didn't have in the previous WA. And also don't drag the rUK into their gameplaying. A good compromise with the balance of power not resting with the EU.
 
Well, they have a choice now they didn't have in the previous WA. And also don't drag the rUK into their gameplaying. A good compromise with the balance of power not resting with the EU.
The balance of power in Northern Ireland is entirely vested in pro-EU factions.
 

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