SONY UBP-X800 ULTRA HD PLAYER OWNERS THREAD

The TV reports, on screen, what it is receiving (eg via the HDMI port). That is all it knows. It will then match whatever it receives to its own pixel structure - scaling where necessary.
IF it receives a 1080p signal - that's what it tells you top right.
IF it receives a 2160p signal - that's what it tells you top right. What is important here, though, is that the TV has no idea how that 2160p input came about - it just sees the signal. So it will report the same thing whether the player is producing 2160p natively (from a UHD disc) OR using its own onboard scaler from eg a 1080p BD.

I can't speak for your Denon's activities as regards overlaying a menu.
 
What that explanation is saying is, just accept it's a 4k upscaled picture and move on, irrespective of what the information is. Just blindly accept it. I would, but the Denon says no.
To further complicate matters, I played a dvd in setting auto 1. And it actually performed as expected!? The dvd picture showed as such......
DSC_0221.JPG


This is a dvd playing in auto 1 outputting 1080 by the player and the TV has clearly upscaled to 2160p.
When I press the Denon options button it won't superimpose over the 2160 image because it can't.
 
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DSC_0223.JPG

This is a blu ray played in auto 1 and the TV hasn't upscaled it. The Denon is able to show it's option menu over it. What's happened I think, which is what Gibbsy was hinting at, is the TV has just blown up the image to fit the screen. And I don't know why? I have always used full wide screen but for some reason the display area is now showing +1 and that was always previously on normal. There's some funny handshaking going on between new player and older TV I think!?
 
Isn't the Denon between the blu-ray player and the TV? In which case it's behaving exactly as you'd expect depending on whether the blu-ray player is outputting 1080p or 2160p.

In post #2402, the blu-ray is ouputting 2160p, Denon won't do menus, TV doesn't have any scaling to do.
In post #2403, the blu-ray is outputting 1080p, Denon does menus and TV upscales.
 
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Isn't the Denon between the blu-ray player and the TV? In which case it's behaving exactly as you'd expect depending on whether the blu-ray player is outputting 1080p or 2160p.

In post #2402, the blu-ray is ouputting 2160p, Denon won't do menus, TV doesn't have any scaling to do.
In post #2403, the bul-ray is outputting 1080p, Denon does menus and TV upscales.
In post#2402 the blu ray is outputting in 1080 according to the manual, the TV is upscaling to 2160. So when the TV upscales, it does inform me that the picture is 2160 and the Denon will shut off it's upscaled picture to show me the menu. The setting on the player in that picture is auto1. In auto 1 it outputs in 1080. That is the difference between auto1 and auto2. Auto1 let's the TV upscale, auto 2 let's the player upscale. Auto 2 outputs in upscaled 2160. But in auto 2 the bravia function turns off.
 
In post#2402 the blu ray is outputting in 1080 according to the manual, the TV is upscaling to 2160. So when the TV upscales, it does inform me that the picture is 2160 and the Denon will shut off it's upscaled picture to show me the menu. The setting on the player in that picture is auto1. In auto 1 it outputs in 1080. That is the difference between auto1 and auto2. Auto1 let's the TV upscale, auto 2 let's the player upscale. Auto 2 outputs in upscaled 2160. But in auto 2 the bravia function turns off.
The TV OSD would indicate otherwise. Either the blu-ray is outputting 2160p or the Denon is upscaling 1080p to 2160p!! EIther way, the TV is telling you its seeing 2160p on its HDMI input.

The fact that the Denon won't do menus doubly confirms that the blu-ray is outputting 2160p. Denon says it's 2160p, TV says it's 2160p but you are convinced it's 1080p. I don't understand why? I must be missing something?
 
......
This is a blu ray played in auto 1 and the TV hasn't upscaled it.
The TV has upscaled it. As I have tried to explain above
1: The TV reports it is receiving a 1080 signal (top right)
2: The screen is full.
Therefore the TV has upscaled it.
 
The TV has upscaled it. As I have tried to explain above
1: The TV reports it is receiving a 1080 signal (top right)
2: The screen is full.
Therefore the TV has upscaled it.
What you're explaining is, because the TV is full, it has to be upscaled by either the TV or the player otherwise it wouldn't be full. 3 days ago I would have accepted that without question.

The X800M2 in auto1 mode outputs at 1080 and in auto2 at 2160. According to the manual. Are we agreed on that?
 
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You can still accept it, because it's true. The ONLY way to make a 1920x1080 signal (eg from a BluRay) fill out all of the 3840x2160 pixels of a UHD screen is to scale - either in the player or in the TV (etc) or in the receiver. In your case, when the TV reports a 1080 signal then it is (must be) the TV that is scaling.

If the 1080 original signal were not upscaled, then you would see something like this:

1588252872837.png
 
What you're explaining is, because the TV is full, it has to be upscaled by either the TV or the player otherwise it wouldn't be full. 3 days ago I would have accepted that without question.
A 4K screen has 8 megapixels. A 2K (1080p) blu-ray has 2 megapixels. For a 4K screen to be filled, either the TV or the player has to increase (upscale) the 2 megapixels to 8 megapixels.
 
The TV OSD would indicate otherwise. Either the blu-ray is outputting 2160p or the Denon is upscaling 1080p to 2160p!! EIther way, the TV is telling you its seeing 2160p on its HDMI input.

The fact that the Denon won't do menus doubly confirms that the blu-ray is outputting 2160p. Denon says it's 2160p, TV says it's 2160p but you are convinced it's 1080p. I don't understand why? I must be missing something?
Basically, the Denon AVR X2300W will not pop up the options menu on screen when the TV is displaying a 4k picture. That's a fact. Just like the fact that a 1080p picture will not fill a 4k TV's display unless it's upscaled. That's why it doesn't make sense to me. In post#2403 that picture was outputted by the player at 1080.
But because the screen is full, the advice given is that the picture definitely is upscaled by the TV. So despite the information saying it is only 1080 (that's just the signal being received by the player.......I disagree......but) it actually is 2160. But if that was the case, why is the menu showing on the screen?
 
Basically, the Denon AVR X2300W will not pop up the options menu on screen when the TV is displaying a 4k picture. That's a fact. Just like the fact that a 1080p picture will not fill a 4k TV's display unless it's upscaled. That's why it doesn't make sense to me. In post#2403 that picture was outputted by the player at 1080.
But because the screen is full, the advice given is that the picture definitely is upscaled by the TV. So despite the information saying it is only 1080 (that's just the signal being received by the player.......I disagree......but) it actually is 2160. But if that was the case, why is the menu showing on the screen?
The Denon will not display menu’s if it is passing through a 4k signal.
If the TV upscales the 1080 picture to 2160, the Denon is unaware! It is part of the 1080 picture and the TV will be scaling this along with the 1080 signal.
 
Che
The Denon will not display menu’s if it is passing through a 4k signal.
If the TV upscales the 1080 picture to 2160, the Denon is unaware! It is part of the 1080 picture and the TV will be scaling this along with the 1080 signal.
Check out post #2402. I was thinking that was a possibility, but it doesn't explain that situation.
One fact is, when the screen info says 2160 the Denon menu won't overlay. When it says 1080 it will.
The denon's inability to overlay can't be tricked by the TV just saying it's 1080 when it isn't. That would be funny though.
 
Che

Check out post #2402. I was thinking that was a possibility, but it doesn't explain that situation.
One fact is, when the screen info says 2160 the Denon menu won't overlay. When it says 1080 it will.
The denon's inability to overlay can't be tricked by the TV just saying it's 1080 when it isn't. That would be funny though.
The Denon can’t overlay its menu over a 4k source, if it is passing through a 1080 signal, it overlays the menu on this, this is then sent to the TV, which upscales both the 1080, video signal and the Denon menu to 4k.

If the Denon is receiving a 4k signal from your player, it cannot overlay its menu onto this to pass on to the tv.

it is due to the resolution of the menus on the Denon receiver.
 
Let's start again at the beginning.

1: The player produces a HDMI signal and sends it down the cable (1) to the receiver.
That signal might have one of a number of pixel structures. Which depends on the player's settings and the source (disc, etc). There are two relevant modes the player can operate
a) match source*. The player sends whatever is on the disc (etc) unchanged into the HDMI cable. Examples: DVD = 720 x 576 (PAL) or 720 x 480 (NTSC); BD = 1920x1080; UHD = 3840x2160.
b) upscale*. The player sends 3840x2160 into the HDMI cable - upscaled by the player when the source material is not already 3840x2160 (UHD) such as you would get from a DVD or BD (etc).

2: The receiver gets the signal from the cable (1). The signal may be any of the above, depending on the source and the player settings. If the player is upscaling, it will always be 3840x2160. If it's not, it might be any of those listed. The receiver deals with the audio and sends the picture signal to its output HDMI port and thence into the cable (2). That signal can still be any of the above, depending on the source and the player settings.

It seems from your description (and I neither confirm nor deny this; I don't know) that the receiver is not able to overlay its own menu if the incoming signal from the player via cable (1) is 3840x2160. But I'll repeat - that might occur EITHER because the original source (disc etc) is UHD or because the player is upscaling a lesser source (i.e is in mode b).

3: The TV takes the incoming signal from cable (2), analyses it, and if it isn't already 3840x2160, upscales it to fit the screen. The TV displays top right the structure of the signal coming in from the player via Cable (1), the receiver, and cable (2).

=============

* I have used descriptive generic terms here to make the description as broadly relevant as possible. Different manufacturers use their own terms to describe these. My own Sony X800 (series 1) uses [Auto] to upscale to match the TV (etc) and [Original resolution] to match the source.
 
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Let's start again at the beginning.

1: The player produces a HDMI signal and sends it down the cable (1) to the receiver.
That signal might have one of a number of pixel structures. Which depends on the player's settings and the source (disc, etc). There are two relevant modes the player can operate
a) match source*. The player sends whatever is on the disc (etc) unchanged into the HDMI cable. Examples: DVD = 720 x 576 (PAL) or 720 x 480 (NTSC); BD = 1920x1080; UHD = 3840x2160.
b) upscale*. The player sends 3840x2160 into the HDMI cable - upscaled by the player when the source material is not already 3840x2160 (UHD) such as you would get from a DVD or BD (etc).

2: The receiver gets the signal from the cable (1). The signal may be any of the above, depending on the source and the player settings. If the player is upscaling, it will always be 3840x2160. If it's not, it might be any of those listed. The receiver deals with the audio and sends the picture signal to its output HDMI port and thence into the cable (2). That signal can still be any of the above, depending on the source and the player settings.

It seems from your description (and I neither confirm nor deny this; I don't know) that the receiver is not able to overlay its own menu if the incoming signal from the player via cable (1) is 3840x2160. But I'll repeat - that might occur EITHER because the original source (disc etc) is UHD or because the player is upscaling a lesser source (i.e is in mode b).

3: The TV takes the incoming signal from cable (2), analyses it, and if it isn't already 3840x2160, upscales it to fit the screen. The TV displays top right the structure of the signal coming in from the player via Cable (1), the receiver, and cable (2).

=============

* I have used descriptive generic terms here to make the description as broadly relevant as possible. Different manufacturers use their own terms to describe these. My own Sony X800 (series 1) uses [Auto] to upscale to match the TV (etc) and [Original resolution] to match the source.
You're saying that the TV displays the "incoming" signal from the cable and receiver in the top left of my screen when the TV's info button is pressed.
Well look at post #2402. That is a dvd disc. The player is on setting auto 1, which outputs down the cable a 1080 signal according to the manual. And the bravia XD93 that I own should do the upscaling. It has in this instance. It's doing what it's supposed to be doing in this example. But it's info shows that it's "displaying" a 2160 picture, that it has upscaled itself. It's not informing me that it's receiving a 1080 signal, which is actually what it's receiving in this example. The player is only sending a 1080 signal.

Post #2402 is an example of all the hardware behaving how I personally expected it to!
My problem is when I swap out the DVD and play a blu ray with all the same settings. That's what happened in post #2403. Here, the player is still sending only a 1080 signal through the receiver into the TV, for the TV to upscale. But instead of telling me it has upscaled like it has in post#2402 with the dvd disc, it's only saying what the signal is. Which is what you say it should be doing, but the example of the DVD upscale conflicts with your explanation.
 
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I have the same TV & the mk 1 version of the same player.
The TV display is showing the output of the UBP-X800 (the input of the TV ) it's not showing you the output of the TV because the TV is 4k by default.
Your Denon is placed between the player & the TV so it sees a 1080p input signal because that's what the player is outputting.
It then overlays it's menu on the 1080p signal & outputs it at 1080p to the TV.
The TV then upscales the 1080p signal (including the overlaid Denon menu) to fit it's 4k display.

In picture 1 below is a 1080p Blue ray.
In picture 2 below is a 4k UHD Blu ray
The UBP-X800 is set to auto 1 in both photos, but note that the TV display is 1080p in picture 1, but changes to 2160p in picture 2.
In your scenario the Denon menu would overlay on picture 1, but not on picture 2 as it can't overlay a 2160p input.

DSC_0002.JPG


DSC_0001-1.JPG
 
Auto 1 is for Sony TV’s.
It will work out what is the best signal to output to a Sony TV, sometimes it may think the TV will upscale better and send a 1080 signal, or may decide to upscale and send 2160 to the TV, depending on the source.

Auto 2 is mainly for other makes of TV and will upscale everything to 2160.
 
I have the same TV & the mk 1 version of the same player.
The TV display is showing the output of the UBP-X800 (the input of the TV ) it's not showing you the output of the TV because the TV is 4k by default.
Your Denon is placed between the player & the TV so it sees a 1080p input signal because that's what the player is outputting.
It then overlays it's menu on the 1080p signal & outputs it at 1080p to the TV.
The TV then upscales the 1080p signal (including the overlaid Denon menu) to fit it's 4k display.

In picture 1 below is a 1080p Blue ray.
In picture 2 below is a 4k UHD Blu ray
The UBP-X800 is set to auto 1 in both photos, but note that the TV display is 1080p in picture 1, but changes to 2160p in picture 2.
In your scenario the Denon menu would overlay on picture 1, but not on picture 2 as it can't overlay a 2160p input.

View attachment 1290970

View attachment 1290971
That is all correct. But I have another scenario where I played a DVD disc on auto1 and when I pressed the info button on the TV remote, it showed as if it was receiving a 2160 input. It's that fact that's causing the confusion. And the denon wouldn't overlay the picture. The Denon always overlays when the info shows 1080 or less in the info. Which is why I would argue that info is actually what's being displayed not what's being received.
 
From the manual.
Yep. I have had that page open in the manual all day. Auto 1 sends out a 2k signal. In auto1 as shown in my photos that I uploaded, I played a DVD and a blu ray both on auto1. Posts 2402 (dvd) and 2403 (blu) both show the images displayed and the info displayed when the TV information button was pressed. Notice the difference. That's what has been bothering me. Furthermore, my amp is incapable of overlaying it's menu on a 2160 image. It "would" overlay on example 2403. Causing further confusion.
 
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The upshot of it is, that despite having a bravia XD93, I won't be using auto1 on the player setting, which is supposedly designed for bravia TV's. I'll use auto2.
 
Yep. I have had that page open in the manual all day. Auto 1 sends out a 2k signal. In auto1 as shown in my photos that I uploaded, I played a DVD and a blu ray both on auto1. Posts 2402 (dvd) and 2403 (blu) both show the images displayed and the info displayed when the TV information button was pressed. Notice the difference. That's what has been bothering me. Furthermore, my amp is incapable of overlaying it's menu on a 2160 image. It "would" overlay on example 2403. Causing further confusion.
Your amp isn't overlaying a 2160p image because it doesn't overlay at the TV. It overlays the signal after the UBP-X800, but BEFORE the tv.
I've just tried various settings on my player & if I use auto 1 for DVD playback. It is upscaled by the player from 576I to 1080p, the TV upscales 1080p to fit the screen.
It's actually possible to change other settings for DVD playback to 576I output from the player, but the only way to output a DVD at 2160p is using auto 2. (or auto 1 with none Sony equipment).
The Denon is probably at the root of your problem as auto 1 on the player is for Sony equipment only, so the UBP-X800 is sometimes defaulting to 4k (as per auto 2) as it's outputting to the (none Sony) Denon & isn't (always) seeing the Sony TV.
 
Your amp isn't overlaying a 2160p image because it doesn't overlay at the TV. It overlays the signal after the UBP-X800, but BEFORE the tv.
I've just tried various settings on my player & if I use auto 1 for DVD playback. It is upscaled by the player from 576I to 1080p, the TV upscales 1080p to fit the screen.
It's actually possible to change other settings for DVD playback to 576I output from the player, but the only way to output a DVD at 2160p is using auto 2. (or auto 1 with none Sony equipment).
The Denon is probably at the root of your problem as auto 1 on the player is for Sony equipment only, so the UBP-X800 is sometimes defaulting to 4k (as per auto 2) as it's outputting to the (none Sony) Denon & isn't (always) seeing the Sony TV.
Now that explanation I could buy. I'll be keeping the player on auto 2 from now on. Only time I will have to change that is with some older DVD music shows that like to play in 4:3. The XD93 won't let you change the aspect ratio with a 4k signal, so I will have to tell the player to output at 1080 or less. But other than that, auto 2. Job done.
 
Now that explanation I could buy. I'll be keeping the player on auto 2 from now on. Only time I will have to change that is with some older DVD music shows that like to play in 4:3. The XD93 won't let you change the aspect ratio with a 4k signal, so I will have to tell the player to output at 1080 or less. But other than that, auto 2. Job done.
I don’t have a Sony TV, but I’m sure there is a setting for DVD’s in the plyer menu that outputs the original aspect ratio.
I have mine on auto 2, but was playing around with it on an old dvd a few weeks back.
 

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