Question Speaker Layout

NM20

Well-known Member
I repainted my cinema room recently and decided that the white rear atmos speakers don’t go with the decor, therefor they need changing. However, that then led to a realisation that I may need a total overall and started looking at something more recent, JBL, Arendal or XTZ.

During this new phase of discovery I started a conversation with @fallinlight and we got talking about speaker placement.

I remembered that when I set the S150 LCR I put them on 1m stands, my ears are about 110cm when seated. Consequently, they were above my acoustic panels and probably firing over my head. I measured again and realised the actual speakers were at a height of 110 - 140cm, so we’re firing over my head. I reduced them all to a stands of 60cm and the change has been phenomenal.

This has then led me to another issue - my side surrounds. As my room has vaulted ceilings and is quite narrow (4m), the side surrounds are about 1m away on one side to the MLP and then 3m on the other side. They are at 90degrees and ear height. The issue is they are very localised. I have therefore placed them on the 1m stands and put them slightly behind the MLP but they are still localised. Has anyone got any suggestions?

In the second image you can see the new position (on the stand) and to the left you can see the silver bracket on the wall, where it was previously situated. You can make the same out on the first image too.

(Sorry for the state of the Brown Sofa, believe me, it is very comfortable and it is so dark in the room you don’t notice)
 

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Conrad.

Well-known Member
I'm experimenting with something similar. A couple of things I've tried that seem to work. You could try turning the speakers 90 degrees so they're pointing down the wall rather than towards you, or point the speakers at the wall. That way the sound bounces off and is a bit more diffuse.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Thanks, I did consider that, I am not sure how it would work with Tripoles?

Looking at the Dolby guide, they would expect them firing at you between 90 and 110 degrees.
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
Just turn them around? So that the side drivers continue to point up/down the wall, but the front driver points at the wall. Not sure what that'll do to the phase response but it's seconds to try and turn back if it's not good.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Now that is very interesting. So the front driver would reflect off the wall first?
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.

I've heard that if you have surrounds which are very close to the listening position and the wall, you can fire them at the wall to make the sound bounce off the wall first resulting in a wider dispersion. It might not work at all but it's free and quick to try.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
What are you going to do? Also, what speakers are you using?
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
I've just replaced my processor so I need to run with my current layout for a while first but I'm thinking about running my rear surrounds either at 90 degrees into the side walls, or into the rear corners.

I'm using B&W 805 so monopole.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
If not using Atmos speakers, raise the surrounds so they are above your head, slightly behind your MLP.

Tripoles shouldn’t be as localised as monopoles, I sit pretty close to my surround speakers, I run them in triaxial (similar time tripole) mode for this reason and they aren’t localised at all. My previous xtz speakers were more so, that is one of the reason I looked for a change, my current ones are much better.

I have Atmos, so run mine at ear height.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
I am running Atmos 7.2.4. how far are your side surround speakers from your MLP, looking at your amazing build, it looks narrow, but that could just be the camera shots.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.

I've heard that if you have surrounds which are very close to the listening position and the wall, you can fire them at the wall to make the sound bounce off the wall first resulting in a wider dispersion. It might not work at all but it's free and quick to try.
Unbelievable! It works like a dream.

I tried the opening scene from Mad Max and usually the girls voice is just to the left of my ear, now it floats slightly more down the left side. Less localised and just as clear. I will test further tomorrow.

Thanks.
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
I’ll be interested to know how you get on. It sounds stupid but if it works...?

you might also find you can adjust the balance back and forth by turning the speakers?

you might also want to re-run any auto eq as the levels and timings could be affected.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Would you have the arrows for the Tripoles pointing to the screen still? Even though they have been rotated 180 Degrees?
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
What do the arrows indicate? Does it mean that one side speaker is louder than the other perhaps?

again, try it. Turn it on it’s head and see if that’s better! If they're two way speakers with a tweeter you might want to raise them up as the tweeter will now be at the bottom.

I've never owned Tripoles so I’m not surehow they behave.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
What do the arrows indicate? Does it mean that one side speaker is louder than the other perhaps?

again, try it. Turn it on it’s head and see if that’s better! If they're two way speakers with a tweeter you might want to raise them up as the tweeter will now be at the bottom.

I've never owned Tripoles so I’m not surehow they behave.
Upside down - you're crazy! (Hahahaha) I was just going to swap the pair over. By the end of you helping me I'll have the speakers doing the fandango, but if it makes the sound better I'm all in.

To be honest, I am not sure what the arrow is for. Doing a quick search of the forums brought this up

"In-phase driver points to front speakers, out of phase to back walls"

Not sure what difference it will make.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Couldn’t be bothered swapping cables, so I turned them on their head - good idea!
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
I didn’t think about swapping sides! My 3D spatial awareness isn’t good today :)

phase is interesting. They might sound dreadful but I think it’ll be ok as you’ve kept the same side driver pointing the same way.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
I didn’t think about swapping sides! My 3D spatial awareness isn’t good today :)

phase is interesting. They might sound dreadful but I think it’ll be ok as you’ve kept the same side driver pointing the same way.
You thought pattern is certainly something to be beheld though.

I didn’t like the upside down they are better just facing the walls. Now to rerun Audyysey - reference or flat curve?
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
You thought pattern is certainly something to be beheld though.

I didn’t like the upside down they are better just facing the walls. Now to rerun Audyysey - reference or flat curve?
Reference or flat is very room dependant and personal taste.

Reference will usually work best for movies.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Thanks. I have been trying flat and was quite inpressed, my bass response seem to have improved (maybe too much).

Edit: Scrap that, it seems just as heavy with reference. It seems to have gone crazy since I ran it again, my Earthquake has gone into overdrive.
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
Interesting that upside down didn't work. Probably worth trying them on the opposite sides of the room, being out of phase with the fronts could be problematic. Do you have a mic and REW that you can measure with?

And as above, it's personal taste, plus equipment and room size based. I'm in a small room with warm sounding speakers so I run flat. I'm on an older version of Audyssey though.

I also don't think it matters, you can run Audyssey and then change the curve without re-measuring, can't you?
 

NM20

Well-known Member

NM20

Well-known Member
Swapped the sides and they seem more localised again. So back to the original sides.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
Reference will have more of a house curve on the sub than flat will have.

If using the app, if you edit any curves, they won’t apply with flat either, only reference.

Tripoles are definitely handed, you need to make sure they are on the correct side, hence why turning them upside down didn’t work.
 

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