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Answered Sub Calibration Question please

M9ADE3

Novice Member
Hi, First I would like to thank everyone in this forum for helping me to understand a lot of things regarding Home theatre and how it works Specially @dante01, I have previous thread month and half ago maybe someone will remember me, anyway i just have two questions to wrap up everything and understand my system.
I have ben told that when I calibrate the system through AccuEQ i put the subwoofer volume (the circle one in front side of the sub) at 12’clock and run the calibration which i did after placing it in a new place in the front of the room 7m from my listing area because previous was 5m away placed near cabinet and it shakes. The question is after the calibration it set the sub db at -6 and after watching few shows and movies the room vibrates hard like its +6 not -6 so i went to the sub and set at 10’clock and now everything is fine BUT i have been told after calibration at 12’clock you can adjust the bass through the menu ONLY not going to the sub volume or i must re-calibration so do i need to now after lowering it to 10’clock ? its still in the same place.

Second question please from what i understand from crossover and bass management i set my full band at 80hz, my question is the higher i go 100,120hz the more bass i’ll be getting am i right ? If yes then the more bass comes from where ? the sub itself or from the front full band speakers ?



Thanks all much appreciated these my two last things i need to understand. :D
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The reason for putting the sub volume at 12 o'clock is to see where the receiver calibrates it. The range if usually -12dB to +12dB, this is the range in which the receiver can easily control the volume of the sub channel and hence the sub. Normally -6dB is well within the range but as you feel the bass is too loud then turning down it's volume to below 12 o'clock and re-calibrating is the right thing to do. The closest you can get the sub to zero dB the better.

When you look at the crossovers that the calibration has set then it is fine to raise that level but not to lower it. If you speakers have been calibrated as being below 80hz then set them at that. You should also set the speakers as being small. Any frequencies below the crossover will be sent to the sub, including those speakers that you set to 100hz or higher.

On the sub itself you should set the phase to zero, also set it's crossover setting to the maximum which is usually 120hz.

This article will explain the rationale for bass management:
Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
The reason for putting the sub volume at 12 o'clock is to see where the receiver calibrates it. The range if usually -12dB to +12dB, this is the range in which the receiver can easily control the volume of the sub channel and hence the sub. Normally -6dB is well within the range but as you feel the bass is too loud then turning down it's volume to below 12 o'clock and re-calibrating is the right thing to do. The closest you can get the sub to zero dB the better.

When you look at the crossovers that the calibration has set then it is fine to raise that level but not to lower it. If you speakers have been calibrated as being below 80hz then set them at that. You should also set the speakers as being small. Any frequencies below the crossover will be sent to the sub, including those speakers that you set to 100hz or higher.

On the sub itself you should set the phase to zero, also set it's crossover setting to the maximum which is usually 120hz.

This article will explain the rationale for bass management:
Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management
First thanks for the quick response, then to have the calibration near 0 i think i need to set the volume around 7-8’clock but i don’t understand why the need of calibration why not just lower the volume and for sure the amp will notice this just sick of many calibration hahaha.

Regarding the crossover part this is new to me that i only can go higher after cali not lower then im in a trouble last calibration results:
Fronts: 120hz ( keep in mind they’re full bands)
Center: 100hz
Surround: 120hz ( this number never changed after doing more than 17 calibrations i dont know why)
Surround back: 50hz i know its weird and below the speaker Frequency Response i think because the calibration was placed just meter away from them there where my listing area under the surrounds back ( i know its crazy to sit there with 7.1 but its my only choice )

I lowered the fronts to 100hz for more bass (if am right about my question more hz = more bass) and the Center to 80hz and the surround back to 80hz because its Frequency Response 75-20.000 same specifications for the surrounds and the center only fronts 42hz-20.000hz. So i kept only the surrounds same at 120hz im running 7.1 system
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
You should not drop the crossover below what calibration has detected. You say your speakers are full range, what are they. The reason for the sub to be re-calibrated is so that it blends with the speakers and it makes it easier for the receiver to control. AccuEQ is not the best calibration system out there, but you have to work with what you've got.
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
You should not drop the crossover below what calibration has detected. You say your speakers are full range, what are they. The reason for the sub to be re-calibrated is so that it blends with the speakers and it makes it easier for the receiver to control. AccuEQ is not the best calibration system out there, but you have to work with what you've got.
I dropped them because i have read a lot on here that wont be an issue an many members in my last thread said that also. the rule here that the best option for fronts after calibration to set them to small and at 80hz so you're against that you say ?

Regarding you asked me about my fronts Jamo S606 here's a link: Jamo.com | S 606

And just to clear this you mentioned "Any frequencies below the crossover will be sent to the sub, including those speakers that you set to 100hz or higher." So does this answer my question that more crossover Hz more bass ? im confused until now i wanna know.:facepalm:
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Your readings puzzle me. With those speakers I would expect a reading of certainly sub 80hz, more like 60hz. With mentioning your surrounds backs showing 50hz it could be a problem with the calibration mic. I have re-calibrated my set up several times with either adding speakers or moving furniture and my readings with Audyssey have always been consistent.

The mic is always going to be close to the surrounds because they are always the closest to the MLP. I run KEFs all around and my front three have always being returned as 60hz and the surrounds as 80hz which is what I would expect from the models I use.

Do you tripod mount the mic and does the mic have a clear unobstructed pathway to all speakers. When running the calibration you should try and get away from the mic. There was a similar thread to this a few weeks ago with almost the same problems that you are facing. I'll try to find it as I'm almost sure it was with AccuEQ as well.

Can you put up some screen shots of your calibration readings.
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
Your readings puzzle me. With those speakers I would expect a reading of certainly sub 80hz, more like 60hz. With mentioning your surrounds backs showing 50hz it could be a problem with the calibration mic. I have re-calibrated my set up several times with either adding speakers or moving furniture and my readings with Audyssey have always been consistent.

The mic is always going to be close to the surrounds because they are always the closest to the MLP. I run KEFs all around and my front three have always being returned as 60hz and the surrounds as 80hz which is what I would expect from the models I use.

Do you tripod mount the mic and does the mic have a clear unobstructed pathway to all speakers. When running the calibration you should try and get away from the mic. There was a similar thread to this a few weeks ago with almost the same problems that you are facing. I'll try to find it as I'm almost sure it was with AccuEQ as well.

Can you put up some screen shots of your calibration readings.
How the sub at 80hz? There is sub crossover option in the menu or you meant the fronts ? Regarding the surround back hz many times i run it always 50-60hz and yes im using tripod and everything properly and be sitting behind the mic and pathway clear during the process. And im using mic extender because my couch is about 6-7m from the Amp and fronts speakers.

You mean a screen shot after i run new calibration because i didn’t took a picture of the last reading just memorize them I mentioned it up or you mean the current one after I adjusted them ? If yes then here you go :
 

gibbsy

Moderator
How the sub at 80hz?
Sub, as in minus. Seven meters from the fronts and using an extender, that's a long way. I think you need to put a diagram up of the room. You've not mentioned what Onkyo you have, or I've missed it although the picture is becoming a little clearer.
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
Sub, as in minus. Seven meters from the fronts and using an extender, that's a long way. I think you need to put a diagram up of the room. You've not mentioned what Onkyo you have, or I've missed it although the picture is becoming a little clearer.
I have the 575E Onkyo | TX-NR575E above my current crossover if you haven't refresh the page i just uploaded it. And regarding the diagram of the room I don’t have it built it 10 years ago but if you need dimensions or picture of it heres my old thread with all pictures of my room And the system setup here:Answered - Please Help with my 7.1 setup
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
So photo was slow to load. That is a reading after calibration, yes. That's looks fine and is what I would expect. Based on those I would leave the fronts at 80hz and match all the surrounds to 120hz. The amp isn't that powerful, certainly not for the room it's in. It has a claimed 135 watts into 6 ohms but that's with one channel driven. With all seven in use that's going to drop dramatically maybe even as low as 40 watts per channel. The room, I think, is playing a very big part in how it is reacting with both speakers and sub.

Your bass problem could be associated with the size of your room and a positional problem as at -6dB that is more than acceptable. Perhaps you should experiment with it's position.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I have the 575E Onkyo | TX-NR575E above my current crossover if you haven't refresh the page i just uploaded it. And regarding the diagram of the room I don’t have it built it 10 years ago but if you need dimensions or picture of it heres my old thread with all pictures of my room And the system setup here:Answered - Please Help with my 7.1 setup
Ah yes, I remember now. You were the thread I was referring to and it's been extensively covered in that post has it not. That is the problem of cross posting, it leads to confusion and people just repeat the same answers as not doubt I have done.

I honestly don't see the point of this particular thread continuing and you should just refer to the previous one for continuity.
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
So photo was slow to load. That is a reading after calibration, yes. That's looks fine and is what I would expect. Based on those I would leave the fronts at 80hz and match all the surrounds to 120hz. The amp isn't that powerful, certainly not for the room it's in. It has a claimed 135 watts into 6 ohms but that's with one channel driven. With all seven in use that's going to drop dramatically maybe even as low as 40 watts per channel. The room, I think, is playing a very big part in how it is reacting with both speakers and sub.

Your bass problem could be associated with the size of your room and a positional problem as at -6dB that is more than acceptable. Perhaps you should experiment with it's position.
What if i rise the fronts to 100hz for more bass will that be okay since I already lowered the volume from the sub to 10’clock ? And yeah regarding the room size it’s acceptable i agree with you
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
Ah yes, I remember now. You were the thread I was referring to and it's been extensively covered in that post has it not. That is the problem of cross posting, it leads to confusion and people just repeat the same answers as not doubt I have done.

I honestly don't see the point of this particular thread continuing and you should just refer to the previous one for continuity.
I thought about it but its dead thread though no one will answer me there but sorry for this then. But my first question up regarding that is more Hz freq for the fronts leads to more bass ? Wasn’t answered there and until now i just want to know that to relieve my mind.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
What if i rise the fronts to 100hz for more bass will that be okay since I already lowered the volume from the sub to 10’clock ? And yeah regarding the room size it’s acceptable i agree with you
Crossovers do not determine how much bass you get and simply direct the frequencies at and below the crossover setting away from the speakers set as being small out to your active subwoofer. All that is changing is the device that is portraying those frequencies. A sub is however more than likely more able to portray said frequencies and the AV receiver's own amplification wouldn't be put under as much strain if the active sub is given the task of amplifying them and portraying them. Your active sub will include a wider diameter drive unit than that associated with your speakers and as such will have a lower frequency roll offf than those speakers.

If you want more or less bass then use the bass setting on the AV receiver or make slight adjustments to the subwoofer level setting on the receiver post calibration. Don't alter anything on the sub itselfpost calibration.
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
Crossovers do not determine how much bass you get and simply direct the frequencies at and below the crossover setting away from the speakers set as being small out to your active subwoofer. All that is changing is the device that is portraying those frequencies. A sub is however more than likely more able to portray said frequencies and the AV receiver's own amplification wouldn't be put under as much strain if the active sub is given the task of amplifying them and portraying them. Your active sub will include a wider diameter drive unit than that associated with your speakers and as such will have a lower frequency roll offf than those speakers.

If you want more or less bass then use the bass setting on the AV receiver or make slight adjustments to the subwoofer level setting on the receiver post calibration. Don't alter anything on the sub itselfpost calibration.
Hi again dante, thanks for sharing this. So far i tried my best to understand your first part but isn't low frequency below the crossover setting that will sent to the sub is bass ? Or something else ?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Hi again dante, thanks for sharing this. So far i tried my best to understand your first part but isn't low frequency below the crossover setting that will sent to the sub is bass ? Or something else ?

Yes, but the sub is there to portray the lower frequencies as opposed to being there to augment or over emphasise them. Those frequencies would be present in the audio recording irrespective of whether you had a sub or not. Besides which, you'd not actually hear anything below 20Hz and are unlikely to be able to audbly detect much below 30Hz. You may feel the bass at this point, but you'd not be increasing the bass. The sub is there to portray the lower end frequencies in balance with the upper and mid level frequencies being portrayed by the speakers. The sub's main role is to deal with and portray frequencies that your other speakers are less well equipped to deal with and most subs are ill equipped to portray or handle anything higher than 120Hz anyway. You are also freeing up power that would otherwise be used by your AV receiver whilst amplifying the harder to amplify lower end frequencies which in turn allows better headroom in terms of the portrayal of mid and upper range frequencies by your passive speakers. You'd end up with less distortion at higher volume levels if diverting the lower end frwquencies out to a passive sub to amplify.

Simply diverting a wider frequency range to the sub isn't necessarily going to increase the bass. You'd have to increase the level associated with the sub's output or boost pre amplification of lower end frequencies using the receiver's bass setting if wanting to elevate the level of perceived bass.

The crossover setting simply determines at which point to redirect frequencies away from the speakers out to the sub. It should also be nored that the higher this level is above 80Hz then the more localised the frequencies become. THe human auditory ability to be able to locate where audio is eminating from starts at 80Hz and expotencially increases the higher the frequency involved. Although 80Hz is regarded as the point at which the human auditory system starts to be able to localise audio, most people don't actually detect where the audio is coming from unless listening to much higher frequencies above 200Hz. The higher the crossover setting, the more chance there is that you'd start to localise the associated audio with the location of the sub.

AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple:
What Is So Important About Bass Management?
Let’s say you bought a receiver and a speaker system. Bass management allows you to set them up in the most optimized way. Without it, you may not even hear the entire soundtrack to movies and music – it’s that important. In addition, speakers that are set incorrectly can often sound muddy or distorted because they are simply being sent too much frequency information that they cannot handle or process. Bass management is one of the most important setup procedures you can learn to tweak your system and make what you have sound even better – and for no cost!

In today's modern 5.1/7.1 home theaters, it is necessary to use at least one subwoofer to properly reproduce the LFE channel and to also reproduce the bass from all speakers set to "small". Using a subwoofer can provide deeper and more consistent bass than running your main speakers "large". It also frees up your speakers to produce the frequencies they were designed to, thus allowing you to play them louder with less distortion.
Full article:
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple


Setting the Subwoofer / LFE Crossover for Best Performance:
Setting the correct bass management on receivers and processors is essential to getting the most out of your audio system. While some systems recommend 80Hz (the standard THX setting for Select and Ultra2-based systems) this is not always the best setting for all theater systems.

Bass Management Should Be Crossed over at the Best Setting for Your System
Just because THX specified a suggested LFE cutoff frequency, doesn't mean it is always appropriate for all room/speaker implementations or that it must be blindly followed. Many times its easy to forget what a subwoofer is meant to do. It is meant to act like a subwoofer, not a woofer. The purpose of a subwoofer is to reproduce very low frequencies that most loudspeakers cannot reproduce with authority on their own. In the 5.1 Digital realm, the LFE channel was introduced as a means to alleviate the demand placed on the other channels to deliver low frequencies with ample amounts of "oomph" without limiting the dynamic range. When using an LFE/subwoofer cutoff (-3dB) at 80Hz / 24dB/octave slope, the frequencies slightly above the 80Hz setting are high enough to still have directional perception, especially if the sub is located in close proximity to the listening position. This makes it easier to locate the sub in the listening room and / or reinforcing standing bass waves in the listening room (above 60Hz) by coupling with the bass output from the main speakers if they are configured large.

Selecting the Right Crossover for Your System
Selecting the right crossover for your system is a process that involves much listening and experimentation. Sometimes it can be easy (such as when a loudspeaker manufacturer tells you where to set it) and sometimes it can be more difficult. On systems that offer a flexible bass management system, shoot for setting the crossover frequency for at least 10Hz above the lowest frequency your main speakers can reproduce cleanly.

There are a whole host of caveats we have to mention here, and we recommend looking at our other articles dealing with loudspeaker setup and configuration. In essence, you are trying to attain a smooth transition from the lower capabilities of your main speakers to the subwoofer. The goal is to not accentuate, or bump, the frequencies in the crossover setting location, but arrive at a seamless blend from mains to sub. In addition, we prefer crossover settings below 80Hz whenever possible so that the subwoofer frequencies are not directional. On some satellite systems, you may find that you have to set the crossover to 100Hz. This is OK, provided it nets you the best overall response.

What About THX Systems?
THX is almost a different beast altogether. A THX Select or Ultra2 system is specifically designed to have the bass management set at 80Hz. While you are free to alter the crossover frequency of a THX system, you will not be utilizing the system as it was intended to be heard. In addition, THX processing and DSP assumes (and sometimes initiates) an 80Hz crossover setting for the LFE. While a THX system may not be desired by everyone, we actually recommend those systems (assuming THX speakers in conjunction with a THX receiver/processor) be configured as recommended.

Conclusions
We highly recommend experimenting with the variable Bass Management / Crossover settings in your receiver / processor to arrive at the best setting possible for the marriage between your loudspeakers and subwoofer, especially if you are using quality "large" tower type speakers with inherently good bass extension. You will find the addition of a sub is much more useful as a compliment to your main speakers, producing deep, non-directional bass tones.

Keep in mind that setting the LFE too high can allow your sub to play up to almost 100Hz, which can cause a bass bump between your main speakers and sub; increasing the chances of:
Setting the Subwoofer / LFE Crossover for Best Performance


" You will find the addition of a sub is much more useful as a compliment to your main speakers, producing deep, non-directional bass tones.".
 
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M9ADE3

Novice Member
Yes, but the sub is there to portray the lower frequencies as opposed to being there to augment or over emphasise them. Those frequencies would be present in the audio recording irrespective of whether you had a sub or not. Besides which, you'd not actually hear anything below 20Hz and are unlikely to be able to audbly detect much below 30Hz. You may feel the bass at this point, but you'd not be increasing the bass. The sub is there to portray the lower end frequencies in balance with the upper and mid level frequencies being portrayed by the speakers. The sub's main role is to deal with and portray frequencies that your other speakers are less well equipped to deal with and most subs are ill equipped to portray or handle anything higher than 120Hz anyway. You are also freeing up power that would otherwise be used by your AV receiver whilst amplifying the harder to amplify lower end frequencies which in turn allows better headroom in terms of the portrayal of mid and upper range frequencies by your passive speakers. You'd end up with less distortion at higher volume levels if diverting the lower end frwquencies out to a passive sub to amplify.

Simply diverting a wider frequency range to the sub isn't necessarily going to increase the bass. You'd have to increase the level associated with the sub's output or boost pre amplification of lower end frequencies using the receiver's bass setting if wanting to elevate the level of perceived bass.

The crossover setting simply determines at which point to redirect frequencies away from the speakers out to the sub. It should also be nored that the higher this level is above 80Hz then the more localised the frequencies become. THe human auditory ability to be able to locate where audio is eminating from starts at 80Hz and expotencially increases the higher the frequency involved. Although 80Hz is regarded as the point at which the human auditory system starts to be able to localize audio, most people don't actually detect where the audio is coming from unless listening to much higher frequencies above 200Hz. The higher the crossover setting, the more chance there is that you'd start to localise the associated audio with the location of the sub.

AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple:

Full article:
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple


Setting the Subwoofer / LFE Crossover for Best Performance:

Setting the Subwoofer / LFE Crossover for Best Performance


" You will find the addition of a sub is much more useful as a compliment to your main speakers, producing deep, non-directional bass tones.".
Got it so your first part if i use like 120hz i’ll be freeing up power that would otherwise be used by the AV receiver which in turn allows better headroom in terms of the portrayal of mid and upper range frequencies by my passive speakers. “You'd end up with less distortion at higher volume”.

And regarding the crossover so if i set it for example 80hz from 0-79hz will be sent to the sub right ?

I thought before if i set higher crossover =more bass will be there few days ago i dont remember where i read one guy said “ i prefer to set my fronts full band at 120hz for more bass” it was thread about crossover also.

And other thing do i agree with gibbsy about earlier “You should not drop the crossover below what calibration has detected“. I remember on my previous thread you said after calibration low your fronts and center to 80hz or something like that.

Thanks dante
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
Frequencies at and below the crossover settings are redirected away from the speakers set as being SMALL and output to the active sub via the sub pre out if you have an active sub present within ypour configuration. The crossover setting simply determines at which point to redirect the frequencies. THis in itself would necessarilly result in more bass or even a better portray of the audio. The trick is to determine the optimum point at which to ocate the crossover.

You are ordinarilly advised to set all speakers as being SMALL and start with an 80Hz setting regardless of the speakers, but you'd also not want to manually set a crossover below the point at which the receiver's own auto calibration determined the crossover be set. If the auto calibration resulted in the speakers being set as SMALL then you can manubally set the associated crossovers higher than what the receiver set the associated crossovers, but setting crossovers below this would be setting them at a frequency lower than the receiver measured the roll off the speakers involved. You'd effectively be creating a hole in the frequency range that neither the passive speakers or the sub would be competently portraying. Hence why in some instances it would be inadvisable to set the crossover associated with some speakers at 80Hz.


I thought before if i set higher crossover =more bass will be there few days ago i dont remember where i read one guy said “ i prefer to set my fronts full band at 120hz for more bass” it was thread about crossover also.

Crossover settings are not applicable to speakers designate FULL BAND (LARGE) and only apply to speakers designated as being small. You cannoyt both employ a crossover and have the speakers it is supposed to apply to as being set to full band. The exception to this would be if setting the sub as LFE + MAIN, but this is inadvisable given that this can give rise to issues with bass boom. There's no real reason or indeed advantage to treating your front speakers as being full range or large:

Large, Small – Am I Ordering Food or What?
In addition to setting the correct crossover frequency, determining whether your speakers are LARGE or SMALL is likely the most critical aspect to getting the best sound reproduction in your system. The majority of home theater novices we’ve met have their speakers set to all LARGE (if this is you please read on.) This great “mystery” is actually quite easy to understand if you know what’s happening behind the scenes. When you set a loudspeaker to LARGE, you are in effect telling the bass management to bypass that speaker and send it the full range of that channel’s information. Let’s slow down and think about this for a minute because I’ve actually met people that argue with me that their bookshelf speakers sound better set to LARGE.

If a bookshelf loudspeaker has an effective frequency response of 50Hz – 20kHz +/-3dB that means that information below 50Hz isn’t well produced by the speaker. In fact, it only serves to provide distortion and compression in the form of signal sent to the driver that it simply cannot reproduce. It’s like giving toffee to a person with no teeth! Let’s picture this in a practical example of an underwater explosion on screen. In this scene there is a large (read: loud) amount of 25-40Hz content and all of it gets sent to the bookshelf speaker. What happens? The speaker struggles with the information and plays back what it can, all the while being somewhat negatively affected by fact that it is also receiving content it simply cannot handle. Where is that 25-40Hz content being heard? Nowhere. It doesn’t get sent to the subwoofer, and it cannot be reproduced by the speaker.

Now, what happens when we set that same speaker to SMALL? Well, assuming we set the crossover frequency to, say, 80Hz, that bookshelf is absolutely loving life since it is now using all of its supplied amplifier power to deliver a relatively easy workload of frequency information. Reduced signal 80Hz is being sent to the speaker making it less stressed and resulting in less overall distortion.
OK, I Get It But My Speakers Really Are LARGE!
For some, your main speakers may actually extend down to 30Hz or lower, especially if they include 10” or 12” side-firing low frequency drivers. The temptation will be to set these speakers to LARGE. The setting is there so there must be a place for its use, right? Actually, we usually recommend setting almost all speakers to SMALL, even if they are physically large floorstanding speakers. Here’s why: Even though those floorstanders have a low extension, they won’t necessarily go down to the lowest range of your subwoofer as linearly and free of compression (unless your main speakers have more piston area and box volume than your sub – but we won’t address that here) The problem with the LARGE setting is: the ultra low frequency information will not be heard if the speaker cannot reproduce it. Well if by some chance you were able to get your main speakers bass extension flat down to 20Hz, then adding the subwoofer on top of that would yield too much (up to 6dB) of bass output at the frequencies both are producing. Hence integration between the loudspeakers and subwoofer will be poor and the bass may be overpowering, sloppy and/or boomy.

As a practical example, my reference system has a pair of RBH Sound 1266-LSEs which extend down to 32Hz. I have them set to SMALL and I set my crossover frequency to 60Hz. Because of this, the subwoofer handles everything up to 60Hz that would otherwise go to my front speakers. The front speakers are now freed up to concentrate on only 60Hz and up. The result is no lost information, less distortion, more headroom and a better overall sound.
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
Frequencies at and below the crossover settings are redirected away from the speakers set as being SMALL and output to the active sub via the sub pre out if you have an active sub present within ypour configuration. The crossover setting simply determines at which point to redirect the frequencies. THis in itself would necessarilly result in more bass or even a better portray of the audio. The trick is to determine the optimum point at which to ocate the crossover.

You are ordinarilly advised to set all speakers as being SMALL and start with an 80Hz setting regardless of the speakers, but you'd also not want to manually set a crossover below the point at which the receiver's own auto calibration determined the crossover be set. If the auto calibration resulted in the speakers being set as SMALL then you can manubally set the associated crossovers higher than what the receiver set the associated crossovers, but setting crossovers below this would be setting them at a frequency lower than the receiver measured the roll off the speakers involved. You'd effectively be creating a hole in the frequency range that neither the passive speakers or the sub would be competently portraying. Hence why in some instances it would be inadvisable to set the crossover associated with some speakers at 80Hz.





Crossover settings are not applicable to speakers designate FULL BAND (LARGE) and only apply to speakers designated as being small. You cannoyt both employ a crossover and have the speakers it is supposed to apply to as being set to full band. The exception to this would be if setting the sub as LFE + MAIN, but this is inadvisable given that this can give rise to issues with bass boom. There's no real reason or indeed advantage to treating your front speakers as being full range or large:



AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple
Got it the first part, second you say set all speakers to 80hz the whole fronts c and both surrounds then that means i’ll be lowering which you said i can’t after the calibration set last results were:
F: 120hz
C:100hz
Sur:120hs
Sur-bk: 50hz (this i can higher it with no problems)

And i read all the the things you post many thanks a lot of infos but i don’t get one part what he means by large bookshelf there is no option for small or large or large means higher crossover?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Not in your case because the auto calibration determined that your speakers have a roll off of 120Hz and 100Hz. You shouldn't therefore manually set their associated crossover below these settings.

Onkyo AV receiver don't include the option to set speakers as being LARGE or SMALL. If you however designate a crossover for use with speakers then those speakers would not be regarded as being FULL BAND (LARGE) and it would be the same as designating them as SMALL if using another brand of AV receiver.
 
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M9ADE3

Novice Member
I lowered if to 80hz because you mentioned that to me in the previous thread.

So the conclusion i run auto calibration again and if it sets my fronts 120hz or 160hz i keep them as it ? Same for all speakers?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I will not have told you to set crossovers below where the receiver's own auto calibration determined they should be set. I'm not going through the other thread to try determine what I've posted. I'll treat this thread a a new topic and will not cross post.

Yes, it is inadvisable to set crossovers lower than the roll off point a receiver's own auto calibration measured in relation to those speakers.
 

M9ADE3

Novice Member
I will not have told you to set crossovers below where the receiver's own auto calibration determined they should be set. I'm not going through the other thread to try determine what I've posted. I'll treat this thread a a new topic and will not cross post.

Yes, it is inadvisable to set crossovers lower than the roll off point a receiver's own auto calibration measured in relation to those speakers.
My bad maybe i got wrong there sorry, alright then i’ll run the AccuEq and see what comes out this time. Thanks dante
 

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