Subwoofer advice for home theater set up

AntM

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Good evening Everyone,

I used my living room to set up my home cinema.
My current layout is:

AV receiver: Marantz SR5014
Front speakers: Dynaudio excite X38 powered by a Sansui AU919
Center channel: Dynaudio Excite x24 powered by the Marantz
Surround speakers: Dynaudio DM 2/7 powered by the Marantz
Sorround back: Qacoustics 3010 powered by the Marantz

No acoustic treatment in the room so far.

I am very happy with the quality of the set up but as I am passionate about sci-fi and action movies I have the feeling sometimes my set up struggles a bit with basses.
I have started to look at subwoofer but, discussing with my father, we came up with an argument about wave length and physics of the room that can actually allow the sub to play and give an effective contribution for my set up.

I am a bit stubborn and I started to look at possibilities and at a local dealer I found these possibilities:
SVS sb2000 pro (single or double sub configuration)
Rel in very different layout , single, double, the HT 1205 , S5SHO... and whatever is in their catalog (official distributor and I might even get discount on discontinued models still available)
B&W DM4S

Of course I do not want die vibrating and I would look for some room treatment to avoid too much resonances.

Does any of you have experiences with similar layout?

What I am looking is:
Suggestion if I should go for 1 or 2 subs (if you have an idea of the model that could suits my need would be fantastic and narrow my trial scheduled for next week)
suggestion on bass traps or acoustic panels I could install.

The budget should be at max 2K

Thank you very much in advance.
Antonio





room.PNG
 
If you’re after a good bass for sci fi / action movies I’d consider ported subs rather than sealed.
Also your room is indeed in a challenging shape from ULF point of view and you may have to end up with at least two subs
If I were you, I’d look at svs Pb2000 or XTZ 12.17 Edge (very good value at the moment)
Start with one sub, use it for a while experimenting with placements, REW, etc. then consider adding another one in the future
 
Forget room treatments for bass frequencies, you would need meters thick treatment to do anything. Most good acoustic panels don’t do much below 200-150hz. What did you discuss about wavelength?

2k is a healthy budget for subs. I’d be tempted to go 2x BK monolith Plus, which are still under 2k, or maybe two XTZ Edge 12.17. Your space is big and a strange layout. So dual subs may help to provide decent response at the MLP, while also offering more output. I’d also go ported for the extra output if size isn’t an issue!
 
First of all thank you very much for the ffedback.

If you’re after a good bass for sci fi / action movies I’d consider ported subs rather than sealed.
Also your room is indeed in a challenging shape from ULF point of view and you may have to end up with at least two subs
If I were you, I’d look at svs Pb2000 or XTZ 12.17 Edge (very good value at the moment)
Start with one sub, use it for a while experimenting with placements, REW, etc. then consider adding another one in the future

I already started to look at 2 subs combination in the environment. Indeed you can see possible spots already in the picture above in green yellow and red.

May I ask why specifically those brands? I understand the reason for ported but unfortunately I have a very musical hearing and I am afraid that with ported subs I will gain in termss of low frequency but loose in definition and timing.

That is the reason why I added the B&W sub, as it is a sealed model but able to go down to 10hz.
In that case I will start with one and take the second somewhere next year.
From a dimension point of view it is also WASY smaller than any other sub (but 1kW of power)

Forget room treatments for bass frequencies, you would need meters thick treatment to do anything. Most good acoustic panels don’t do much below 200-150hz. What did you discuss about wavelength?

2k is a healthy budget for subs. I’d be tempted to go 2x BK monolith Plus, which are still under 2k, or maybe two XTZ Edge 12.17. Your space is big and a strange layout. So dual subs may help to provide decent response at the MLP, while also offering more output. I’d also go ported for the extra output if size isn’t an issue!

Sorry, my bad. I meant bass traps, targeting low frequencies. I started to make the calculation and to attack the 50hz I should get something thick 12/15 cm. What you mean with wavelenght?

Unfortunately size is a bit of an issue. The smallest the sub the happier my girlfriend will be and the easiest will be to convince her to have even 2 (unless it is the case of REL, where che likes the design very much)
 
Again, I am skeptical about the whether bass traps do anything if at all for bass frequencies, most problems associated with bass can be solved with positioning and multiple subs.

When a ported sub is tuned low it exhibits similar group delay to a sealed sub around an octave above tuning. Whether group delay correlates to to tightness (horrible word) or musical sound is another debate, most musical bass imo comes down to integration with the mains, and proper positioning.

Out of size, spl, and extension, you can only ever have two simultaneously. A small sub can either be loud or go low, not both, similar a small sub that can go low won’t necessarily go loud!
 
A 15cm thick trap will be at most effective down to around 80Hz: Monster Bass Trap with FlexRange Technology - GIK Acoustics Europe
Even that I think is ambitious.

Getting decent control of resonances under 100Hz requires a lot of treatment.

Treatment is a great idea and will improve things in the upper frequencies (decay times, not response though) but don't expect it do too much for bass.

musical sound is another debate, most musical bass imo comes down to integration with the mains, and proper positioning.

This is probably the most important thing, along with placement. One of the best investments you can make is a mic to measure the sub response and ensure good placement and timing integration.
 
First of all thank you very much for the ffedback.

I already started to look at 2 subs combination in the environment. Indeed you can see possible spots already in the picture above in green yellow and red.

May I ask why specifically those brands? I understand the reason for ported but unfortunately I have a very musical hearing and I am afraid that with ported subs I will gain in termss of low frequency but loose in definition and timing.

That is the reason why I added the B&W sub, as it is a sealed model but able to go down to 10hz.
In that case I will start with one and take the second somewhere next year.
From a dimension point of view it is also WASY smaller than any other sub (but 1kW of power)
with that kind of challenging room you may as well end up with 3 not 2 subs but the only way to know is to get a mic, use REW and experiment with placements. I'd start with one good sub, invest in a mic (UMIK is recommended), make measurements with REW and if you can't fix your freq. response (FR) then get another sub. Depending on your budget, get a minidsp too when you get a second sub, it's a magical stuff

You may end up having to place a second/third sub in one of those auxiliary rooms on your floor plan. I myself have a challenging room with an alcove. Originally I had both of my 12.17 Edge's upfront (for aestetics and looks) but I was never satisfied with my FR and eventually ended up moving one of the subs into the alcove. Got myself a Minidsp 2x4HD and now have an FR that I'm very happy with (see the REW chart below).
Both subs with EQ.jpg

With regards those brands, it's just because I own two XTZ 12.17 Edge's and can wholeheartedly recommend them. At the moment they're on a deal and at that price you can't get a better sub IMHO. If you prefer sealed subs, they can also be run as "sealed" with provided port bungs. I think the new PB2000 Pro is also a cracking sub and can also be run as sealed but almost twice as expensive as XTZ these days so the latter is definitely a good value at the moment and one of the obvious choices
 
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Hi all,

Confinement and other personal stuff have stopped me from posting here a feedback.

I went to some local suppliers and made a couple of test (considering the availability and the fact that I do not buy if I do not try.
Unfortunately I was only able to test Rel and B&W subs.

I ended up with a single DB4S in test at my place and I fell in love.
At the moment I have a single sub (the budget for the second has yet to be built) and I was able to perform a couple of test.

It is not at the top of its performance as I have to set it up properly but the reference volume for the system (tested with the other speaker, same condition) was giving me an output of 75db.

Below the picture of what that sub is capable of...
I have to re-equalize it (I am getting familiar) and I bought the Marantz app for a better control over speakers equalisation) but as you can see... yes, it goes a lot deep. And loud.

... And marantz is not best known for having the best bass output

The amplifier really goes down to 10hz
Cattura.PNG


As reference of measuring here it is my left main speaker (dynaudio Excite X38) with mic in the same position and same volume
Cattura.PNG
 
Is that response before you use the phone app (eq)?

" Adjust calibration and correction easily using DB4S dedicated smartphone app. "
 
Ummm output seems to drop off at 30hz.

No way a little sealed, small driver sealed box mainstream brand goes down to 10hz...with any decent SPL
 

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