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Question Test tone settings..

MrUTAh

Novice Member
Hi,
I have a setup, 5.1 Denon X250BT with q acoustics 3010 and center 3090C.
This receiver does not have a audysee setup nor mic to setup.
I'm testing it via my phone app, the Mrs won't allow me to buy some fancy setup so I'm stuck with trying this way. I'm confused on what to do, I'm in tone testing for each speaker, set my master volume to 75db, now, do I have to set every individual speaker so it hits the same 75db from the sweet spot? I've measured the distance from each speaker as good as I could, roughly 3.4 meters away, rears are 0.4 meters away.
Am I doing this right or being completely stupid?
Edit: should also note I've set my crossovers to 100 and subwoofer 120...
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yes, you'd level the speakers so that each measures the same level relative to your primary listening location. This level is referered to as reference and is generally 75db for home theatres.



You may find this guide on manual calibration of interest:

I'd maybe suggest you set the crossovers to 80Hz, but 100Hz should be fine. I'm also assuming that you've set the speaker sizes as being SMALL? The crossover settings are only applicable to the speakers you designate as being SMALL.

More on bass management here:

Yes, the LPF of LFE filter onboard the AV receiver should always be set to 120Hz. The subwoofer hasn't got a crossover setting.
 

maxkolonko123

Active Member
I like to keep my sub louder then rest speakers Ive set it on 82db and Centre channel on 77-78 just to make sure I can hear dialouges better so you don't need to be firm on that 75db on all channels
 

MrUTAh

Novice Member
The calibration guide was helpful, cheers for that!
I've now set my crossover to 80, I was told to put them on 100 by someone else for some reason?

Max;
What do you mean by you've set the centre to 82db? Do you mean you've set it to +13 on the tone settings bit?
 

maxkolonko123

Active Member
The calibration guide was helpful, cheers for that!
I've now set my crossover to 80, I was told to put them on 100 by someone else for some reason?

Max;
What do you mean by you've set the centre to 82db? Do you mean you've set it to +13 on the tone settings bit?
I said I keep my sub at 82db by turning up the gain on subwoofer amp, centre at 77-78db by adding cpl points on avr trim, crossover you put on 80hz or higher depends how u like it more, so the subwoofer can handle low end,
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The calibration guide was helpful, cheers for that!
I've now set my crossover to 80, I was told to put them on 100 by someone else for some reason?

The rated frequency response of the QA 3010 speakers is 68Hz - 22kHz while that of the 3090C is 75 Hz – 30 kHz. I guess you could play it safe and use the lesser abilities of the centre to determine the crossovers being set a bit higher, but even then I'd suggest 90Hz as opposed to 100Hz. There's no technical reason why you'd need to use a 100Hz crossover.
 

MrUTAh

Novice Member
The rated frequency response of the QA 3010 speakers is 68Hz - 22kHz while that of the 3090C is 75 Hz – 30 kHz. I guess you could play it safe and use the lesser abilities of the centre to determine the crossovers being set a bit higher, but even then I'd suggest 90Hz as opposed to 100Hz. There's no technical reason why you'd need to use a 100Hz crossover.
So you think 90 is best then for all? I don't really understand the crossover tbh
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The ideal is no lower than 80Hz because 80Hz is tehnically the point at which the human auditory system starts to be able to localise where the audio is coming from. The theory is that you can divert anything below this and redirect it to the sub without the sub then becoming localised and its location detectable by you. The reality of the matter is that most people have trouble being able to localise anything below 200Hz, but if you increase the crossover to frequencies above 80Hz then you also increase the chances of the sub becoming localised by the higher frequencies it would then be outputting.

80Hz is always a good place to start and is more often than not the ideal setting for speakers with a frequency handling ability that is actually below this. Your centre spwaker's abilities are very close to 80Hz though so setting its crossover a bit higher decreases the chances of any frequencies close to that speaker's abilities being lost or being portrayed less accurately.

90Hz should be fine :)



You may find the following of interest:
http://www.mkloudspeakers.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Bass-Management-Room-Modes.pdf


snapshot002.jpg
 
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MrUTAh

Novice Member
The ideal is no lower than 80Hz because 80Hz is tehnically the point at which the human auditory system starts to be able to localise where the audio is coming from. The theory is that you can divert anything below this and redirect it to the sub without the sub then becoming localised and its location detectable by you. The reality of the matter is that most people have trouble being able to localise anything below 200Hz, but if you increase the crossover to frequencies above 80Hz then you also increase the chances of the sub becoming localised by the higher frequencies it would then be outputting.

80Hz is always a good place to start and is more often than not the ideal setting for speakers with a frequency handling ability that is actually below this. Your centre spwaker's abilities are very close to 80Hz though so setting its crossover a bit higher decreases the chances of any frequencies close to that speaker's abilities being lost or being portrayed less accurately.

90Hz should be fine :)



You may find the following of interest:
http://www.mkloudspeakers.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Bass-Management-Room-Modes.pdf


View attachment 1247883
Ahhh right, makes a lil sense to me now! I've set them to 90 now. Why did QA decide to make center speaker Hz different to the others considering they're the same models?

On my last setup, I bought from someone else, who set it up perfectly and the instructions for the speakers actually said what Hz is recommended at, they were 120Hz, they were also half the size tho
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I don't think it was a purposeful decision and was probably a result of the speakers slighly different horozontal design. THe capabilities aren't jusy something the speakers attain at the whim of the manufacturer and are determned by the design and construction of the cainet as well as the size of the drive units.

The smaller the speakers then the higher the required crossover. Sat speakers are ordinarilly more dependant upon a sub for bass than larger speakers.

Irrespective of the speaker size, you'd still be advised to set them as being SMALL and to not use a crossover below 80Hz. You are effectively wasting amplifier power by using the amp to amplify these lower end frequencies when there an active sub present. The active sub is far more adept at amplifying these frequencies and built to portray them. Having the active sub deal with all of the lower end frequencies can actually imrove the upper frequency headroom and performance. THis is because the amplifier isn't being put under as much strain and more power can be allocated to the upper frequencies without distortion.
 
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MrUTAh

Novice Member
I don't think it was a purposeful decision and was probably a result of the speakers slighly different horozontal design. THe capabilities aren't jusy something the speakers attain at the whim of the manufacturer and are determned by the design and construction of the cainet as well as the size of the drive units.

The smaller the speakers then the higher the required crossover. Sat speakers are ordinarilly more dependant upon a sub for bass than larger speakers.

Irrespective of the speaker size, you'd still be advised to set them as being SMALL and to not use a crossover below 80Hz. You are effectively wasting amplifier power by using the amp to amplify these lower end frequencies when there an active sub present. The active sub is far more adept at amplifying these frequencies and built to portray them. Having the active sub deal with all of the lower end frequencies can actually imrove the upper frequency headroom and performance. THis is because the amplifier isn't being put under as much strain and more power can be allocated to the upper frequencies without distortion.
So the sub crossover settings in my receiver are pointless with my active sub?
In movies, the sub makes a huge difference. In games I have to turn it off as its way too boomy even with the dial turned to the 1st dot.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
No, the crossovers determines at which point the receiver redirects frequencies away from speakers designated as being SMALL away from those speakers and out to the active sub. The sub itself hasn't a crossover because where would it redirect frequencies to?

Ensure that the sub isn't set to an LFE + MAIN or DOUBLE BASS mode onboard the receiver. This often causes issues with bass boom.

Also ensure that you've the sub's SPL level correctly set at the same level as your other speakers. The sub's own volume isn't determined by where it needs to be set to attain reference during calibration. Set it to just below mid way prior to starting the calibration and only adjust the level via the level setting on the receiver.
 
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MrUTAh

Novice Member
No, the crossovers determines at which point the receiver redirects frequencies away from speakers designated as being SMALL away from those speakers and out to the active sub. The sub itself hasn't a crossover because where would it redirect frequencies to?

Ensure that the sub isn't set to an LFE + MAIN or DOUBLE BASS mode onboard the receiver. This often causes issues with bass boom.

Also ensure that you've the sub's SPL level correctly set at the same level as your other speakers. The sub's own volume isn't determined by where it needs to be set to attain reference during calibration. Set it to just below mid way prior to starting the calibration and only adjust the level via the level setting on the receiver.
Mine was set to LFE + MAIN, other option is just LFE? Ive set it to just LFE.
So my sub should be showing 75db with the speaker test? It was way below
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Each speaker should ideally measure an SPL of 75db at reference. UNsure as to what point would be regarded as being reference when it comes to your receiver's master volume though?
 

MrUTAh

Novice Member
Each speaker should ideally measure an SPL of 75db at reference. UNsure as to what point would be regarded as being reference when it comes to your receiver's master volume though?
I've been setting my receiver's master volume at 75 and then making speakers match 75db. Was that the correct way?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If the receiver has no 0db reference point then yes. What does the receiver set the Maser Volume to when you invoke the test tone?
 

MrUTAh

Novice Member
I read that article and set my master volume to 0db and then adjusted until they were as close as 75dbc as possible. When I enter the test tone it starts at the volume I set before I enter it. I did tho, set my center speaker a few notches up so dialogue is slightly louder. Is this wise?

Edit: I rarely go that loud on movies, probably 65 is max. Some older movies require going a maybe to 75 but rarely do I need it to.
Does it make a difference or should I set them at say 65 or does it not make a difference?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
It is perfectly acceptable to make minor adjustments to the levels. Doing as you've done is common practice and many make minor adjustments to the centre channel in order to improve the legibility of dialogue at lower listening levels. I'd not take things too far though and I'd personally not exceed increasing the levels by more than 3db.
 

MrUTAh

Novice Member
I've got my settings as follows:
Front L: -7.0
Center: -1.0
Front R: -6.0
Surround R: -7.0
Surround L: -4.5
Subwoofer: 0.0

You think it's too low or just how it can be?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I cannot comment without measuring the levels relative to you listening position. If the levels are equal (pre adjustement) then they should be fine.
 

MrUTAh

Novice Member
I cannot comment without measuring the levels relative to you listening position. If the levels are equal (pre adjustement) then they should be fine.
Have to watch a movie to see if I think it's better or not.
Thanks for your patience in helping!
 

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