The Cycling Thread: Part 4

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clc.sheff

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the write up Dometheone.

Did you ride the same trails with all the bikes? I was wondering how much getting more familiar with the trails might have affected your opinion of the ride of each type of bike.

I have also wondered about the 650b size. Having looked at a 29 er they do seem really big bikes but 650b is a lot closer to 26 inch than 29 so is the difference that noticeable? Another big factor is tyre size. I run 2.2 's on my ridgid and the overall diameter is pretty close to my road bike tyres. When I had a mountain bike before I had 2.1 on the front and a 1.95 on the back. Maybe running a big tyre on a 650b is the way forward? I am thinking of buying a 2.3 to put on the front of my ridgid bike as a bit of an experiment.

One thing I would say about riding a 26 incher is I have ridden bits of trails and found the small wheel size a bit of an issue so the idea of bigger wheels does seem to have some basis.
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
Hi Shef


Yep. Rode sections 1-4 of the red route for each bike.

It is possible that familiarity breeds content etc

The 29" Hardtail just didn't feel right. Probably didn't help that i had an iffy moment on it too in a twisty bit lol.

It was still pretty bumpy on it, though less so than my 26". The 29" in comparison were effortless.

A key thing though would be climbs. There aint any at Sherwood Pines so i've yet to tey a FS out long climbs.
Am quite keen to try the 650 as it may well be the perfect balance between the nimble 26" and the monstrous 29"

Ps - why does everyone always call me dometheone lol.

There's no e after dom but i get the impression that everyone sees it different as the amount of times it's typed dome suggests that it only displays as domtheone to me on the forum :)
 
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domtheone

Distinguished Member
Double post.
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
Mate of mine has the Boardman team FS. Stunning value at £1050. We were looking at the parts on his and the demo bike i had (retail 2k+) and a chunk of them were the same.

If i was in the market for a 1k FS i'd have bitten the bullet a while back. Fortunately, it can be a fair bit higher and I want to be 100% sure when spending chunks of cash :)
Mine is going to be via cycle2work. I can top the value up, but would prefer it if I can avoid doing so! If I end up topping up a bit I'll want to go whole hog...

...and while I can afford that, I don't think the other half would understand why I'd spent a load of my share proceeds on a bike!

Decisions. Wish I was buying in Autumn before product refresh.
 

clc.sheff

Distinguished Member
Oops, I actually went back and checked the spelling of your username. I read it as Dom the one. No idea where the e came from.
 

jono987

Well-known Member
Hi guys, I'm looking for some help on the cycle to work scheme.

Has anyone in here used it?

A few of the questions I have are:

Does my employer pay for the bike?

After the 12 months hire payments, do I then have to pay the full price of the bike if I want to keep it?
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
You pay for the bike minus tax directly from your wages, at the end of the 12 months period you pay a nominal sum for the bike (depending upon value but around 20 quid) and it's yours or the employer keeps it.

Great scheme and if I could justify a third bike I'd do it again in a heart beat.
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
Hi guys, I'm looking for some help on the cycle to work scheme.

Has anyone in here used it?

A few of the questions I have are:

Does my employer pay for the bike?

After the 12 months hire payments, do I then have to pay the full price of the bike if I want to keep it?
1. I've just signed up so sort of, yes

2. They don't pay as such - you are accepting a salary sacrifice - that is, a reduced salary before taxes.

For example, I chose a £1000 voucher. I sacrifice £83.33 per month gross, but I save 42% as a higher rate tax payer. Therefore, my net deduction from salary is only £48.33 per month for a year.

You receive a voucher to the value of your opt-in. Take it to a participating shop and choose your bike and accessories.

3. After 12 months, it is paid for ... but you will have a residual payment to pay after three years to transfer ownership. If you're lower-rate tax payer, it's again dependent on the original cost of the bike, but for me, its £48.

It's usually a percentage of the original cost i.e. 12% of £1000 = £120.

You pay the tax on this, say, 40% x 120 = £48

Under £500, the residual value is less, and combined with the lower tax band, would mean a smaller residual payment.

On most schemes now, you can only get a voucher for a bike every three years. You can usually top up with vouchers for accessories each year though.
 

jono987

Well-known Member
Thanks guys! Who sets the final payment? Is it always 12% plus tax or does my employer set the amount?
 

Adcook

Distinguished Member
Having just finished cyclescheme getting a £1000 voucher I had three options at the end.

1. Under a separate agreement with Cyclescheme, you pay a small, one-off refundable deposit (3% or 7% including VAT of the equipment value*) and continue to use the bicycle for up to 3 years. The monthly payments are zero. At the end of this period, Cyclescheme refund the deposit if you do not wish to keep the equipment.? This option will cost you £70.00.

2. Take ownership of the equipment by paying Cyclescheme a much higher valuation (e.g., for a one year old bicycle this would be 18% or 25%* of the certificate value in accordance with HMRC requirements).? This option will cost you £250.00.

3. Return the bicycle to Cyclescheme, at your own cost.
I went for option 1 as if I had paid £250 for the bike outright I would have only saved about £50 on the RRP of the bike which I'm sure I could have saved more by paying cash at the time. Basically the final payment for the bike is not taken out of your pretax wage so you wouldnt take 40% off that.
 

jono987

Well-known Member
So you never really own the bike? Seems strange if your paying every month, wouldn't I be better off using an interest free credit card?
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
Thanks guys! Who sets the final payment? Is it always 12% plus tax or does my employer set the amount?
It depends on the value.

Over £500 voucher it is 12% value, then you are taxed on that.

Under £500 I think it's 8% value, then you are taxed on that.

Having just finished cyclescheme getting a £1000 voucher I had three options at the end.



I went for option 1 as if I had paid £250 for the bike outright I would have only saved about £50 on the RRP of the bike which I'm sure I could have saved more by paying cash at the time. Basically the final payment for the bike is not taken out of your pretax wage so you wouldnt take 40% off that.
That's the old scheme, if I'm not mistaken. The current one is a bit easier to deal with (i.e. residual payment or give it back etc).

Often you won't be expected to give it back - depends on how big/bothered your company is really!
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
So you never really own the bike? Seems strange if your paying every month, wouldn't I be better off using an interest free credit card?
Yes, you do own it if you pay the token payment at the end. It's simply to transfer ownership and you are paying a bit of tax on the depreciated value of the bike. You can of course give it back, but they don't tend to be asked to be given back for one, and most people wouldn't want to!
 

Adcook

Distinguished Member
That's the old scheme, if I'm not mistaken. The current one is a bit easier to deal with (i.e. residual payment or give it back etc).
That's still how its listed on the website and I only just went through this a few weeks ago. Other schemes may be different though.
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
That's still how its listed on the website and I only just went through this a few weeks ago. Other schemes may be different though.
Is yours CycleScheme too?

How it's dealt with at the end can vary a little, but my company works on a residual value basis as per my above calculations.
 

Adcook

Distinguished Member
Is yours CycleScheme too?

How it's dealt with at the end can vary a little, but my company works on a residual value basis as per my above calculations.
Yeah it is.

I think the company might have some say in it depending in their agreement with cyclescheme but I think what I have quoted is standard for most. Anyone entering into it should confirm this with the employer before hand as it can make it not such a great deal.
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
Yeah it is.

I think the company might have some say in it depending in their agreement with cyclescheme but I think what I have quoted is standard for most. Anyone entering into it should confirm this with the employer before hand as it can make it not such a great deal.
Yes, I just double checked to be 100% sure, as you had me worrying for a moment there!




At the end of the 3-year hire period, you can either:
  • Return your bike to "Company X" or
  • "Company X" may offer to transfer ownership of the bike to you. The transfer will be treated as a taxable benefit; therefore, the fair market value of the bike will be declared on your P11D form at the end of the tax year and you will be required to pay income tax on this amount. "Company X" uses the HM Revenue & Customs valuation table to establish the fair market value of your bike:
If the original value of your bike was less than £500, its fair market value after 3 years would be:
8% of its original value
If the original value of your bike was £500 or more, its fair market value after 3 years would be:
12% of its original value


Whether you choose to return your bike to "Company X" or "Company X" offers to transfer ownership to you, at the end of the 3-year hire period, you can hire another bike through the scheme, if you wish.
 

Adcook

Distinguished Member
That's a much better deal than what we got.
 

Robothamster

Distinguished Member
Yay, my Triban 3 is here!



ForumRunner_20130417_140253.jpg

Apologies for poor pic :)
 

figoagogo

Distinguished Member
So you never really own the bike? Seems strange if your paying every month, wouldn't I be better off using an interest free credit card?
But you get taxed via your wages? The cycle to work scheme is salary sacrifice, its taken from your wages pre-tax. Having said that you can get good deals on bike outside of the scheme.
 

Adcook

Distinguished Member
Yeah, you can see why I took the maximum voucher value. With a 42% saving it was a no-brainer.



Looks good!
Hold on though, yours says at the end of the 3 year hire period? Does that mean you will be paying monthly over three years?

Edit. Ah after reading your original post its basically the same as our scheme but slightly different so that the end of scheme payment is taxable.

With our scheme at the end of 12months I chose to pay £70 to transfer the bike to cyclescheme directly and hire it from them for 3 more years at no further monthly payments. If I want the bike after those 3 years I just keep it. If I want to give it back I get my £70 back.

With yours you pay nothing after 12 months, its automatically hired for another 2 (or is it 3) years when you pay a fee to transfer ownership or I assume you can give it back.

Either way you have to keep the bike for 3-4 years
 
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Qactuar

Distinguished Member
Hold on though, yours says at the end of the 3 year hire period? Does that mean you will be paying monthly over three years?

Edit. Ah after reading your original post its basically the same as our scheme but slightly different so that the end of scheme payment is taxable.

With our scheme at the end of 12months I chose to pay £70 to transfer the bike to cyclescheme directly and hire it from them for 3 more years at no further monthly payments. If I want the bike after those 3 years I just keep it. If I want to give it back I get my £70 back.

With yours you pay nothing after 12 months, its automatically hired for another 2 (or is it 3) years when you pay a fee to transfer ownership or I assume you can give it back.

Either way you have to keep the bike for 3-4 years
Correct. Pay for one year. Hire for three. One token residual payment or give it back after fthe full three years.
 

jono987

Well-known Member
Going to go for it I think, if I link a couple of bikes I'm looking at could ya's tell me which one to go for?
 

figoagogo

Distinguished Member
Jono it may be worth telling us what you will be using the bike for: commute, fun, exercise, on road, off road etc.
 
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