The Dark Light Rises - Jenz Cinema

Great results, very impressive. I am getting a 2nd sub myself so it is all ahead of me :)

Are you using Audyssey in the end or there is no need for it?

Wouldn’t actually need to use audyssey if using a minidsp, but I’d still recommend audyssey first and then the minidsp over the top as it will help EQ your main speakers.
 
Wouldn’t actually need to use audyssey if using a minidsp, but I’d still recommend audyssey first and then the minidsp over the top as it will help EQ your main speakers.

I would love to be able to avoid engaging Audyssey as it downmixes evrything to 48khz. Maybe in the new room with acoustic treatment I will not need it anymore.
 
Yes definitely using Audyssey.

The process ended up being:

1) Turn off Audyssey. Use recommended settings on each Sub (in this case for the Arendal 1961 1s's this was Ref Setting, -6db Input Gain, Number of Subs 2).
2) Use REW and MiniDsp 2x4HD to time align Subs by testing at various delays. Looking for flattest line and highest combined output (measuring both Subs but using a delay of 0.25ms increments - first Sub 1 then Sub 2). Ended up using Sub 2 delay of 2.5ms. From that point on the Subs are time aligned and should be treated as one Sub to the AVR.
3) Reset AVR Crossovers on all speakers bar Subs to recommended XO's. On mine this should be 80Hz but 100Hz is actually better. Then with this done, run Audyssey.
4) With Audyssey on, use REW to look at L,C,R without Subs, Subs only (by running a left sweep with left main disconnected).
5) Further adjust AVR Sub Distance (timing) to align with mains (turns out a reduction of 90cm was best).
6) Run sweeps of L+Subs, R+Subs, C+Subs, and then adjust Sub levels with a REW created PEQ Filter added to MiniDsp Input 1 (which Subs are connected to Output 1 and 2).

@mb3195 found that the Subs were actually running 6db to low, so this may be because the Arendal recommended setup (without MiniDsp using Denon/Audyssey) is -6db, which we had set. Suspect the MiniDsp didn't help here. So I reset both Subs on their settings (not on the AVR) to 0db Input Gain back up from -6db Input Gain.

Have also added a further 3db uplift on the AVR for taste :D. Now I'd like to say I knew how all this was actually done but what we actually looked at for 5) and 6) to get there is a mystery:facepalm:

That is going to be very helpful very soon :). Thank you.
 
I would love to be able to avoid engaging Audyssey as it downmixes evrything to 48khz. Maybe in the new room with acoustic treatment I will not need it anymore.

I wouldn’t worry about this, try finding a single film that is above 48khz. You won’t find one.
 
I wouldn’t worry about this, try finding a single film that is above 48khz. You won’t find one.

The remastered blu-ray of Akira has 192khz audio, but yeah, not many :)

I didn't know that though. I use my system for music and movies so I'll have to have a listen and see if I can hear a difference. Presumably pure direct turns off Audyssey anyway.
 
I prefer audio quality of my system much more with Audyssey disabled but it also solves or masks some acustic problems which I cannot live with so I keep it on.

Maybe when I move system to the other room it will be different.
 
Picked up a brand new, refurb, warrantied Zappiti One SE 4K for £259 today as I want to try it it against my nVidia Shield 2019. The later is great but not so SWMBO friendly.

Will keep the Shield for Netflix and Amazon duties, or possibly sell and switch to Apple TV. Still debating.
 
Hi

read thread with interest, like the evolution from 2012, especially the dog pic, see similar with our cats,
image001.jpg
you mentioned impact of Devore, where did you source ? Thinking of trying impact in my room.

regards

Kevin
 
Thanks ordered sample, thinking I might get some Curtains’s to use as masking for 16:9 material 2.35 screen. Not cheap at £20 per metre, but interested in impact.
Kevin
 
This Saturday past I was fortunate to visit @mb3195 Home Cinema during his Open Day. A great day and definitely worth reading my notes.

Here's My Write Up on His Thread

The Day was so well spent. It convinced me to change my own plans yet again!

Some Updates
I changed plans yet again and have cancelled plans to move my Kit to the front of my room and do something (albeit much less flash) akin to Mark's and @IWC Dopplel by having my gear at the back but possibly separated.

Video
My Zappiti One SE 4K HDR arrived today so I am going to hook that up and see how it compares to my nVidia Shield.

I can make some real improvements by doing two visual things:
  • Increase the amount of Devore along my left and right walls. Effectively make some Curtains like MB has so that when drawn along the walls they block any light in my peripheral vision.
  • Create some manual masking for my screen to make it better for 2.39:1 movies. MB's was highly effective and oh so simple.

Audio
The other things I learnt was that at high volume between -10 and -5 in my room I was finding that high frequencies were tending to be tiring and a little shrill. In conversation on Saturday the suggestion came up to trim my Treble on my Denon by -3db. I made this change over the weekend and watched both Red Sparrow and 47 Ronin at -5db. Didn't feel tired like I had before, very pleased with that simple and easy change. This is pulling down my high end to much more of a slope rather than flat. Note that Audyssey is still configured as reference. You do this change by playing a Source and pressing the Option button on the Denon remote allowing Trim options.

The final change I made was recommended by Arendal. The 2 Subs in my room sound superb but I was getting some real low LFE vibration in my wall :laugh: now I don't like that very low deep bass. I'm not in America with single digit subs in a giant custom room in the middle of a field, so Arendal recommended activating the Subs "Subsonic Filter" at 16Hz. So I made this change and sure enough the issue disappeared. Basically the Subs are rolling off to nothing at this point very quickly. The additional benefit is that in the scenes that it was an issue the Bass is no longer muddied by that vibration. Sounds really awesome. Queue repeated viewings of the Fury Tank scene.

Sound above 400Hz is considered to be directional. In fact, the higher the frequency, the more directional the sound waves tend to be. In a home theater or 2-channel listening room, these bounce off the nearby walls and produce very noticeable second order reflections which compete with the direct sound from the loudspeakers.

These are easily controlled by strategically placing acoustic panels along the side walls to absorb these troublesome reflections. As a rule, these are mounted at ear and/or speaker height and positioned along the wall to capture the early reflections from the loudspeakers.

I'm using the Mirror Technique (description shamelessly stolen from the Web) to add Acoustic Panels at my Reflection points. Whilst I have Acoustic Panels behind my LCR and Screen I have more to do.

Mirror Technique and Clap Technique
For optimal placement, the easiest and most effective way to position acoustic panels is to use a mirror. To do this, you will need an assistant!

  1. Sit in the listening position
  2. Have your assistant move a mirror across the wall surface in between you and the speakers
  3. Using a pencil, mark the beginning and end points where the speakers (Tweeter) are visible in the mirror
  4. Note that you will want to view the left and right speakers (and centre if used) in the mirror
  5. This will define the area that would be ideally treated
  6. Repeat for the second side
You can then mount your acoustic panels to the walls using these markers . Note that you do not have to cover the full area; covering most of the surface will provide plenty of control.

Once the side walls have been treated, you can enjoy even greater control by absorbing the rear reflections on the wall behind the sitting position. For this, you would turn around while remaining in the listening position and then follow the same approach by marking the wall where you can see the speakers in the mirror. Dispersion Panels are often used for this as they provide general area absorption without completely deadening the room. Too much absorption will remove the energy and excitement.

As a final measure, for those that want maximum definition, placing a couple of 3” thick acoustic panels behind the loudspeakers on the front wall will help eliminate comb-filtering caused by omnidirectional low frequencies emanating from the loudspeaker.

You can also check these points with the Clap Technique shamelessly stolen from @IWC Dopplel :thumbsup:

Firstly go to a room with a very heavy curtain. Clap right next to the Curtain. You'll hear your sharp clap and immediately nothing. The Curtain will have absorbed the noise and not reflected it back.

Secondly go to the corner of a room with nothing on the wall. Clap :clap: about 4 inches from the corner. You'll hear your sharp clap and immediately you'll hear echo from both sides of the corner. Do this a few times and get used to that extra "reflection sound".

Now go to your Cinema Room and to where the Mirror Technique says you should have an acoustic panel. Clap :clap: - You'll almost certainly hear the same type of reflection sound. This is where you'd put your acoustic panel.

Doing this I found quite a heavy reflection point close to my left main, not one next to my right as there is a heavy curtain there, and one near to rear left surround.

@Conrad. has recommended Mafia Panels which I'm investigating, GIK is also an option, as is EFoam.co.uk.

So in theory I should have my Devore Curtains that pull across the walls and cover the Acoustic Panels so they are not seen. The adventures continue...
 
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4 Black Large Rockwool Mafia Panels arriving tomorrow. Going to use 2 on the left wall, 1 on the rear, and one on the right.

Zappiti One SE 4K HDR in place and being tested against nvidia Shield Pro.
 
876FDAB7-46A5-4E17-8443-DC0F8DB5A36C.jpeg

4 Rockwool Panels have arrived for installation. Pleased with the service from Mafia Panels. Will be interesting to see the quality once unboxed.
 
View attachment 1356065
4 Rockwool Panels have arrived for installation. Pleased with the service from Mafia Panels. Will be interesting to see the quality once unboxed.
I was thinking about building my own but after checking their prices I think it is a no brainer.

Have to do a bit more reading on the subject and I should be following in your footsteps in not too distant future.

Will be interesting to read about your experience.
 
@Conrad. recommended them and his help has been superb for me in the past. That plus I'm lousy at making stuff myself mean't they were worth a punt.
 
58E71CC5-58A1-4283-BC3D-EB991BDCC07B.jpeg
They are black, not jet black probably still need Devore across them which was the plan anyway. Made well, will be interesting to see what audio difference they make.
 
AE94710C-DE98-4AAC-B687-5F8F449B13DC.jpeg


Here is the acoustic panel next to my blackout Devore material. You can see that they are blacker than the black painted wall but nowhere near as dark as the Devore material. Whilst I haven’t fix them to the wall yet nor have I measured the response I can already hear a difference particularly in speech from the centre speaker.
 
They're great value panels. I had to wait a couple of weeks for mine.

I'm very happy with mine and they made a massive difference in my room. Be careful covering them in non-acoustically transparent material though. The plan is for the sound to go through the panel and get transformed into heat as it does so. Anything that makes it through reflects back from the wall and passes through it again (which is why you leave a gap between panel and wall). If you cover it with devore you run the risk of reflecting sound from the devore and diminishing the effect of the panel.

I gues you can always measure, hang devore over the panel and then measure again.
 
Thanks ordered sample, thinking I might get some Curtains’s to use as masking for 16:9 material 2.35 screen. Not cheap at £20 per metre, but interested in impact.
Kevin
Devore sample arrived together with sample of black velvet from another seller. Interesting how much blacker the Devore is, so will order to cover around screen and make some 16:9 masks using combination of these as fixings to the wall.

25 mm Large Size Gunmetal Black... Amazon product ASIN B07M9PZ6XS
6 Pack Magnetpro 1.0”D x 0.2”H Neodymium Disc Countersunk Hole Magnets 10 KG Pull Force, Strong, Permanent, Rare Earth Magnets with 6 Screws Amazon product ASIN B07L2VL36D
The latter for the masking. Got something similar for holding bottom screen to wall (top hooked on bracket)

so I think I need c. 10m. Quite a discount for greater than 10m so want to measure accurately to not be short.

also if you live a bit remote worth ordering by phone as initially shipping was £65!

Kevin
 
4 Black Large Rockwool Mafia Panels arriving tomorrow. Going to use 2 on the left wall, 1 on the rear, and one on the right.

Zappiti One SE 4K HDR in place and being tested against nvidia Shield Pro.

How have you found the Zappiti compared to the Shield? im dabbling with the idea of a dedicated machine and removing the Shield.
 
How have you found the Zappiti compared to the Shield? im dabbling with the idea of a dedicated machine and removing the Shield.
Well I'm very happy with it. Works very well. Now the main benefit is that it is easier to use. I picked up mine cheaply from Zappiti UK on ebay. I am waiting for a new Zappiti Pro which I am thinking will be late this year/early next year.

Note that I will still need to retain my Shield for 4k Atmos Netflix and 4k Amazon Prime in my Cinema room.
 

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