The magnificent seven

Watched this tonight and although a few scenes had dodgy blacks and a little grain thought the PQ was really good.

Not compared to the bluray but happy i bought the UHD.

Pop in the blu to have a look if you get a chance.
 
It was shot on film (Kodak) grain is an inherent part of that medium, yes there was grain, unequivocally. But I personally thought it looked amazing.
UHD being so detailed, combined with HDR really brings out all the details, warts and all.
Wait till more classic films are released on the format, (LoA, Ben-Hur etc) it's gonna be 'grain ahoy-hoy' (technical term) :laugh:

Agree,but with people brought up in the digital age,they dont understand what grain is,and its part of the film format :D:).

Have a quick read from this review P/Q

The Magnificent Seven 4K Blu-ray
 
It was shot on film (Kodak) grain is an inherent part of that medium, yes there was grain, unequivocally. But I personally thought it looked amazing.
UHD being so detailed, combined with HDR really brings out all the details, warts and all.
Wait till more classic films are released on the format, (LoA, Ben-Hur etc) it's gonna be 'grain ahoy-hoy' (technical term) :laugh:
Not really with those two, seeing as they were shot large format 65mm ;)

But I definitely agree with several thoughts above especially the wonky blacks and quite subdued HDR/WCG treatment, though there's clearly an increase in detail over the BD. @Anton2015 it's not that grain was "added" for UHD, more like it's been filtered off in the 1080p disc. Might as well just paste my blu-ray.com post here:

'The lack of a 4K finish robs it of that final scintilla of resolving power (every little helps when dealing with a source that isn't super sharp to begin with, owing to the anamorphic 35mm acquisition on what looks some of the older Panavision glass) but it's definitely got the beating of the Blu-ray for detail. Grain is also more pronounced on the UHD.

Colour-wise they're very, very similar as this doesn't have some garish, artificially pumped palette, although I thought my SDR conversion had found another duff UHD when I immediately noticed how lightweight the black levels were throughout the film, as the dark scenes are suffused with a ruddy tint and it was really distracting - but then I popped the Blu-ray in and saw that it's got the exact same issue so that's alright then.'
 
Thanks Simon.

I may be being over critical as most of the new movies I've bought really have been pristine with no grain.

Once I got into the movie I didn't notice it as much - and it was more fitting with the movie.

I also agree some of the close ups looked amazing as did other parts.

I think one of the reasons I was much more surprised was that when I went to the cinema to see the movie there was no grain there either. The picture was so good in fact I specifically remembered thinking this would look amazing in 4K.

It does have a lot more detail than the blu Ray but when I did the a/b comparisons the grain was virtually non existent.

I think this is maybe another example of what works for one movie doesn't work for others depending on how it was mastered, what nits they were using (1000-4000) etc.

I'm confident my HDR settings are as good as they can be based in the calibration and having watched around 20 new movies over the Xmas period (had a pile of new Ines whilst waiting for the Oppo to be released)

Thanks for checking!
The part you mention is fairly grainy. I suppose it's a little subjective as each persons definition of grainy might differ. I only really noticed it because I went looking for it.

I'm not sure the different setups we all have can alter the extent of grain. My understanding is if it's on the disc and it's grainy, then it is what it is?!
 
I finished this last night and didn't find the Atmos up to much, didn't even notice my overheads once. Anyone else find it lacking? I did have the volume a little lower than usual which could've been part of the reason but only a few db lower than usual.
For me the sound was awesome, some stand out parts with the explosions at the start of the battle scene, dirt falling to the ground and gun shots coming from all over the place :thumbsup:
 
The part you mention is fairly grainy. I suppose it's a little subjective as each persons definition of grainy might differ. I only really noticed it because I went looking for it.

I'm not sure the different setups we all have can alter the extent of grain. My understanding is if it's on the disc and it's grainy, then it is what it is?!

Thanks for checking Simon.

I certainly agree that we do all have interpretations of what's good/ bad , grain / no grain etc. .

I know what you mean that certain setups wouldn't alter the extent of the grain if it's on the disc - but based on reviewing the content and lowering the backlight for example, it does make it appear less revealing with a lower backlight so I was perhaps thinking some TV's with a lower brightness output or even some settings on the TV could make it less / more apparent.

Still doesn't explain fully why the movie at the cinema was extremely clear and free of grain from what I remember. Unless it's because when it was shot and mastered for cinema release and it was done so without HDR in mind which was then added later.

I don't quite really understand the full processes for mastering the movies from cinema to blu Ray etc.

I remember watching a short documentary regarding Marco Polo on Netflix how the director had a number of HDR monitors on set for filming as he was specifically filming for HDR so scenes were setup and recorded with this in mind.

I'm wondering if this is normal now for directors or if the majority are shot on film / digital but then added HDR after the event.

This again could possibly explain why what I saw at the movies was definitely finished / looked very different to what I played in 4k HDR.

Appreciate it's not a fair comparison and I may be completely off the mark on this lol but just thinking out loud lol
 
Thanks for checking Simon.

I certainly agree that we do all have interpretations of what's good/ bad , grain / no grain etc. .

I know what you mean that certain setups wouldn't alter the extent of the grain if it's on the disc - but based on reviewing the content and lowering the backlight for example, it does make it appear less revealing with a lower backlight so I was perhaps thinking some TV's with a lower brightness output or even some settings on the TV could make it less / more apparent.

Still doesn't explain fully why the movie at the cinema was extremely clear and free of grain from what I remember. Unless it's because when it was shot and mastered for cinema release and it was done so without HDR in mind which was then added later.

I don't quite really understand the full processes for mastering the movies from cinema to blu Ray etc.

I remember watching a short documentary regarding Marco Polo on Netflix how the director had a number of HDR monitors on set for filming as he was specifically filming for HDR so scenes were setup and recorded with this in mind.

I'm wondering if this is normal now for directors or if the majority are shot on film / digital but then added HDR after the event.

This again could possibly explain why what I saw at the movies was definitely finished / looked very different to what I played in 4k HDR.

Appreciate it's not a fair comparison and I may be completely off the mark on this lol but just thinking out loud lol
Movies are not shot that way on set, no. There are of course playback monitors but they don't usually 'shoot' for HDR on-set, they have a DIT (digital intermediate technician) in charge of managing the incoming data (when shooting digital) who often applies a basic LUT (look up table) to adjust the raw camera information into something that's closer to the intended look, and these LUTs are often carried over into the final colour grade with plenty of other tweaking.

As a rule, normal digital cinema is not 'high dynamic range' in the same way that home HDR is (though it does have a wider colour gamut and more of a logarithmic gamma curve to emulate the roll-off of film), and even the theatrical Dolby Vision HDR system only has about 100 nits peak brightness, so the HDR grades you see on these UHD discs have little to do with that theatrical grading process and are very much revised after the fact. But these extra grades (for SDR 709 Blu-ray, for HDR 2020 UHD etc) are usually built into the movie's post-production schedule so they're still overseen by the filmmakers, although the same can't be said for x catalogue film that's been regraded into HDR.

But I find that grain always tends to less far less pronounced at the cinema anyway, for whatever reasons (large format IMAX blow-ups aside). Yes, we're looking at a huge screen but we're also sat a fair distance away, couple that with a massive reduction in brightness compared to consumer flat panels (14 foot lamberts is the recommended SMPTE brightness for 2D cinema, that's about 48 nits) and it doesn't bring out the grain as much as consumer HDR does.
 
Movies are not shot that way on set, no. There are of course playback monitors but they don't usually 'shoot' for HDR on-set, they have a DIT (digital intermediate technician) in charge of managing the incoming data (when shooting digital) who often applies a basic LUT (look up table) to adjust the raw camera information into something that's closer to the intended look, and these LUTs are often carried over into the final colour grade with plenty of other tweaking.

As a rule, normal digital cinema is not 'high dynamic range' in the same way that home HDR is (though it does have a wider colour gamut and more of a logarithmic gamma curve to emulate the roll-off of film), and even the theatrical Dolby Vision HDR system only has about 100 nits peak brightness, so the HDR grades you see on these UHD discs have little to do with that theatrical grading process and are very much revised after the fact. But these extra grades (for SDR 709 Blu-ray, for HDR 2020 UHD etc) are usually built into the movie's post-production schedule so they're still overseen by the filmmakers, although the same can't be said for x catalogue film that's been regraded into HDR.

But I find that grain always tends to less far less pronounced at the cinema anyway, for whatever reasons (large format IMAX blow-ups aside). Yes, we're looking at a huge screen but we're also sat a fair distance away, couple that with a massive reduction in brightness compared to consumer flat panels (14 foot lamberts is the recommended SMPTE brightness for 2D cinema, that's about 48 nits) and it doesn't bring out the grain as much as consumer HDR does.

Ahhh thanks as always Geoff [emoji1303]
 
Just watched this with my two boys.

An enjoyable if forgettable film but the lads enjoyed their first western!

Anywho, the main reason i started this thread was to comment on the picture quality - or lack thereof.

I have now watched five 4k blu-rays and the picture quality has ranged from eye wateringly beautiful (The Revenant, Lone Survivor), to stunningly crisp (Sicario), to dissapointing (Fury Road).

I have to say its been a wee bit up and down so far and this latest film has been the worst example of 4k blu-ray i have seen.

Serious grain issues in lots of scenes (not just one or two like the otherwise excellent Deadpool uhd) and a bare minimum (if any) implementation of hdr throughout just really doesn't cut the mustard in this format. Also the absolute minimum we should expect, or indeed accept from this format i believe is a nice clean 4k picture and i swear i can't imagine the standard 1080 blu-ray looking any worse than whats on display here. I doubt anyone would come waltzing into the room and even spot that you are watching a uhd.

The sad thing is I love westerns. Of all movie genres i can't think of any that should benefit more from 4k hdr with their immensely wide shots of grass plains, mountains, forests and great plains all with the sun going up or down. This uhd is a missed opportunity at what should have been reference material.

I'll be selling my copy on ebay straight away and I'll pick it up on 1080 blu-ray if the notion takes me in the future and I'd advise anyone else to go for the standard blu-ray too.

I agree with you on this one. I didn't even like the movie. The movie didn't have the feel i want from a western. It felt like a orgie of action scenes. Not much HDR on this movie and the dark scenes is just a little bit to dark. But in some scenes the picture looks good, so it is not all bad. And good contrast overall. Plus for the great sound in this movie. Demo material for your sound system.
 
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Late to the party but so glad I found this thread.

I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when watching this film, I too noticed large amounts of grain but on reading online reviews there is no mention of grain and most title it "reference quality disc", after playing my "Lucy" uhd I knew it wasn't my eyes as that film looks stunning! Glad to hear others are in the same boat as me and I'm not losing my sight
 
Late to the party but so glad I found this thread.

I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when watching this film, I too noticed large amounts of grain but on reading online reviews there is no mention of grain and most title it "reference quality disc", after playing my "Lucy" uhd I knew it wasn't my eyes as that film looks stunning! Glad to hear others are in the same boat as me and I'm not losing my sight

I'm glad others have found my original post holds some valid points and its not just that I'm going Mr Magoo or my telly isn't up to snuff!
 
I'm glad others have found my original post holds some valid points and its not just that I'm going Mr Magoo or my telly isn't up to snuff!

Nope definitely not your eyes or TV, I did enjoy the movie but I am one of "those people" who doesn't like grain in my picture, older movies like Independence day or Goodfellas I can understand. If reviews had mentioned the grain I would have stayed well away but as I said nearly all said it was one of the best 4K discs out and reference quality, Nope not for me it isn't
 
This movie is upscaled from 2k to 4K. It's not a true 4K image on 4K bluray.
People used to get very outraged when upscaled DVDs were being put on bluray. I have some myself. They still say it's not authentic HD.
Therefore does the same apply to 4K bluray?
The vast majority of discs are upscaled. the magnificent seven movie is not authentic 4K.
Aren't we being conned here?
 

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