The Truth about Guns in America

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BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
After the recent shootings in the USA, several countries put out travel advisories about foreign travel to the USA. That souds scary, but here is the truth about guns in the USA.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- **99.9963% of Gun NEVER murder anyone EVER**

300,000,000 Guns - the most conservative estimate.

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017, latest data).

(11,000 / 300,000,000) x 100 = 0.0036666666... = 0.0037%


If we use larger numbers for the number of guns, the percentage comes out smaller -

11,000 / 400,000,000 x 100 = 0.00275%


- **99.9843% of Gun Owners NEVER murder anyone EVER**

70,000,000 estimated Gun Owners. (estimates between 70 Million and 120 million)

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017).

11,000/70,000,000 x 100 = 0.0157%


The Number of Gun Owner is estimate as there in no really way of knowing, but the number of gun owners is increasing, so again, the number used are very conservative and gives the largest problem percentage.

- **99.995% of AR-Style Guns NEVER murder anyone EVER**

Common estimate for AR-Style guns which are only very vaguely defined, is between 4 million and 15 million.

There were 403 Rifle Homicides in the USA in 2107 (latest data FBI), not all of those are AR-Style. Data is not broken down by the style of Rifle. So we estimate that half of them were AR -

200/4 million x 100 = 0.005%

200/15 million x 100 = 0.0013%


- **You are 8.56 TIME MORE LIKELY to die using you Cell Phone than you are to be murdered by a Rifle**

According to the Traffic Safety Board (CDC, NHTSA), 3450 people died Texting while Driving, there were 403 Rifle Homicides. Again, simply arithmetic.

3450/403 = 8.56


- The CDC and several other sources estimate the number of **Defensive Gun Uses at between 2 Million and 3 Million per year.** Again, that is another number that is hard to pin down exactly. If we use the average of 2.5 million then -

2.5 Million / 11,000 = 227.2727...

You are 227 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be SAVED by a gun than murdered by one.

If we take gun deaths from all causes, then -

2.5 Million / 33,000 (2016) = 75.7575....

You are 76 TIME MORE LIKELY to be SAVED by a gun the killed by a gun by any means.


https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2018-What-Do-CDC’s-Surveys-Say-About-the-Frequency-of-Defensive-Gun-Uses.pdf

Shall I go on?

- **You are more likely to be Struck By Lightning than to be murdered by a Rifle**

Top Google Search referencing National Geographic, the odds of being Struck by Lightning are 1 in 700,000

Calculated, the odd of being murder by a Rifle are 1 in 806,451.

325 Million / 403 = 806,451.6129


In the State of MN (Minnesota) you are EIGHT TIMES more likely to be Struck By Lighting than to be murdered by a Rifle. In the State of CA (California), the odds are GREATER THAN 1 in 1 Million to be murder by a Rifle.

Conclusion, you are more likely to be Struck By Lightning that to be murdered by a Rifle.

MORE:

- **You are 3.64 TIME MORE LIKELY to die in a Motor Vehicle Accident than to be murdered by a Gun**

40,000 estimated Motor Vehicle Deaths (2017).

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017).

40,000/11,000 = 3.6363... = 3.64


MORE?

According to the *CDC Morbidity and Mortality Charts,* **Alcohol kills more people than guns.** Alcohol is #80 on the list and Gun Homicides are #107. (CDC = Center for Disease Control)

MORE?

On the day of the Mandalay Las Vegas shooting 50 people died, on the same day -

- 123 people die everyday because they don't have Health Insurance. (45,000/yr)
- 548 people die everyday because of Medical Malpractice (200,000/yr)
- 181 people died from Drug Overdose; SIX times greater than all Gun Homicides.
- 19 people died and another 4,108 were injured everyday simply because your Doctor has CRAPPY HANDWRITING (7000 dead per year, 1.5 million injured)
- Knives kill 4 TIMES more than Rifles (FBI)
- 1.7 TIMES MORE people are physically beaten to death than are killed by Rifles. (FBI)
- More people are killed with Blunt Object than are murdered by Rifles. (FBI)
- 22 veterans die EVERY SINGLE DAY by their own hand because once out of the Military we refuse to give then the help they need.


I have more....

Just some food for thought.

I'm open to your thoughts?

Steve/bluewizard
 
Last edited:

andy1249

Distinguished Member
After the recent shootings in the USA, several countries put out travel advisories about foreign travel to the USA. That souds scary, but here is the truth about guns in the USA.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- **99.9963% of Gun NEVER murder anyone EVER**

300,000,000 Guns - the most conservative estimate.

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017, latest data).

(11,000 / 300,000,000) x 100 = 0.0036666666... = 0.0037%


If we use larger numbers for the number of guns, the percentage comes out smaller -

11,000 / 400,000,000 x 100 = 0.00275%


- **99.9843% of Gun Owners NEVER murder anyone EVER**

70,000,000 estimated Gun Owners.

11,000 Gun Homicides.

11,000/70,000,000 x 100 = 0.0157%


The Number of Gun Owner is estimate as there in no really way of knowing, but the number of gun owners is increasing, so again, the number used are very conservative and gives the largest problem percentage.

- **99.995% of AR-Style Guns NEVER murder anyone EVER**

Common estimate for AR-Style guns which are only very vaguely defined, is between 4 million and 15 million.

There were 403 Rifle Homicides in the USA in 2107 (latest data FBI), not all of those are AR-Style. Data is not broken down by the style of Rifle. So we estimate that half of them were AR -

200/4 million x 100 = 0.005%

200/15 million x 100 = 0.0013%


- **You are 8.56 TIME MORE LIKELY to die using you Cell Phone than you are to be murdered by a Rifle**

According to the Traffic Safety Board (CDC, NHTSB), 3450 people died Texting while Driving, there were 403 Rifle Homicides. Again, simply arithmetic.

3450/403 = 8.56


- The CDC and several other sources estimate the number of **Defensive Gun Uses at between 2 Million and 3 Million per year.** Again, that is another number that is hard to pin down exactly. If we use the average of 2.5 million then -

2.5 Million / 11,000 = 227.2727...

You are 227 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be SAVED by a gun than murdered by one.

If we take gun deaths from all causes, then -

2.5 Million / 33,000 (2016) = 75.7575....

You are 76 TIME MORE LIKELY to be SAVED by a gun the killed by a gun by any means.


https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2018-What-Do-CDC’s-Surveys-Say-About-the-Frequency-of-Defensive-Gun-Uses.pdf

Shall I go on?

- **You are more likely to be Struck By Lightning than to be murdered by a Rifle**

Top Google Search referencing National Geographic, the odds of being Struck by Lightning are 1 in 700,000

Calculated, the odd of being murder by a Rifle are 1 in 806,451.

325 Million / 403 = 806,451.6129


In the State of MN (Minnesota) you are EIGHT TIMES more likely to be Struck By Lighting than to be murdered by a Rifle. In the State of CA (California), the odds are GREATER THAN 1 in 1 Million to be murder by a Rifle.

Conclusion, you are more likely to be Struck By Lightning that to be murdered by a Rifle.

MORE:

- **You are 3.64 TIME MORE LIKELY to die in a Motor Vehicle Accident than to be murdered by a Gun**

40,000 estimated Motor Vehicle Deaths (2017).

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017).

40,000/11,000 = 3.6363... = 3.64


MORE?

According to the *CDC Morbidity and Mortality Charts,* **Alcohol kills more people than guns.** Alcohol is #80 on the list and Gun Homicides are #107. (CDC = Center for Disease Control)

MORE?

On the day of the Mandalay Las Vegas shooting 50 people died, on the same day -

- 123 people die everyday because they don't have Health Insurance. (45,000/yr)
- 548 people die everyday because of Medical Malpractice (200,000/yr)
- 181 people died from Drug Overdose; SIX times greater than all Gun Homicides.
- 19 people died and another 4,108 were injured everyday simply because your Doctor has CRAPPY HANDWRITING (7000 dead per year, 1.5 million injured)
- Knives kill 4 TIMES more than Rifles (FBI)
- 1.7 TIMES MORE people are physically beaten to death than are killed by Rifles. (FBI)
- More people are killed with Blunt Object than are murdered by Rifles. (FBI)
- 22 veterans die EVERY SINGLE DAY by their own hand because once out of the Military we refuse to give then the help they need.


I have more....

Just some food for thought.

I'm open to your thoughts?

Steve/bluewizard
Almost certainly NRA stats, most news reports show mass shootings on the rise.

Logically guns should go regardless, either what you posted is true and most guns go unused, therefore you don't need them, or mass shootings are on the rise, therefore you don't need them.
 

Sonic67

Banned
Lots of guns, weak gun laws. Together lots of deaths.

Guns are the problem

Nothing will happen though. I learned that after the first school shooting. Most civilised countries if someone massacres kids in a school you make sure it never happens again. This never happened in the US.
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
Nothing will happen though. I learned that after the first school shooting. Most civilised countries if someone massacres kids in a school you make sure it never happens again. This never happened in the US.
Well if the odds are low enough, what's the worry? it'll probably never happen to your children.

It just becomes another of those random acts of life, like getting hit by lightning.

Can't do much about it now can we..... (well not in the UK anyway)
 

shodan

Distinguished Member
After the recent shootings in the USA, several countries put out travel advisories about foreign travel to the USA. That souds scary, but here is the truth about guns in the USA.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- **99.9963% of Gun NEVER murder anyone EVER**

300,000,000 Guns - the most conservative estimate.

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017, latest data).

(11,000 / 300,000,000) x 100 = 0.0036666666... = 0.0037%


If we use larger numbers for the number of guns, the percentage comes out smaller -

11,000 / 400,000,000 x 100 = 0.00275%


- **99.9843% of Gun Owners NEVER murder anyone EVER**

70,000,000 estimated Gun Owners.

11,000 Gun Homicides.

11,000/70,000,000 x 100 = 0.0157%


The Number of Gun Owner is estimate as there in no really way of knowing, but the number of gun owners is increasing, so again, the number used are very conservative and gives the largest problem percentage.

- **99.995% of AR-Style Guns NEVER murder anyone EVER**

Common estimate for AR-Style guns which are only very vaguely defined, is between 4 million and 15 million.

There were 403 Rifle Homicides in the USA in 2107 (latest data FBI), not all of those are AR-Style. Data is not broken down by the style of Rifle. So we estimate that half of them were AR -

200/4 million x 100 = 0.005%

200/15 million x 100 = 0.0013%


- **You are 8.56 TIME MORE LIKELY to die using you Cell Phone than you are to be murdered by a Rifle**

According to the Traffic Safety Board (CDC, NHTSB), 3450 people died Texting while Driving, there were 403 Rifle Homicides. Again, simply arithmetic.

3450/403 = 8.56


- The CDC and several other sources estimate the number of **Defensive Gun Uses at between 2 Million and 3 Million per year.** Again, that is another number that is hard to pin down exactly. If we use the average of 2.5 million then -

2.5 Million / 11,000 = 227.2727...

You are 227 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be SAVED by a gun than murdered by one.

If we take gun deaths from all causes, then -

2.5 Million / 33,000 (2016) = 75.7575....

You are 76 TIME MORE LIKELY to be SAVED by a gun the killed by a gun by any means.


https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2018-What-Do-CDC’s-Surveys-Say-About-the-Frequency-of-Defensive-Gun-Uses.pdf

Shall I go on?

- **You are more likely to be Struck By Lightning than to be murdered by a Rifle**

Top Google Search referencing National Geographic, the odds of being Struck by Lightning are 1 in 700,000

Calculated, the odd of being murder by a Rifle are 1 in 806,451.

325 Million / 403 = 806,451.6129


In the State of MN (Minnesota) you are EIGHT TIMES more likely to be Struck By Lighting than to be murdered by a Rifle. In the State of CA (California), the odds are GREATER THAN 1 in 1 Million to be murder by a Rifle.

Conclusion, you are more likely to be Struck By Lightning that to be murdered by a Rifle.

MORE:

- **You are 3.64 TIME MORE LIKELY to die in a Motor Vehicle Accident than to be murdered by a Gun**

40,000 estimated Motor Vehicle Deaths (2017).

11,000 Gun Homicides (FBI 2017).

40,000/11,000 = 3.6363... = 3.64


MORE?

According to the *CDC Morbidity and Mortality Charts,* **Alcohol kills more people than guns.** Alcohol is #80 on the list and Gun Homicides are #107. (CDC = Center for Disease Control)

MORE?

On the day of the Mandalay Las Vegas shooting 50 people died, on the same day -

- 123 people die everyday because they don't have Health Insurance. (45,000/yr)
- 548 people die everyday because of Medical Malpractice (200,000/yr)
- 181 people died from Drug Overdose; SIX times greater than all Gun Homicides.
- 19 people died and another 4,108 were injured everyday simply because your Doctor has CRAPPY HANDWRITING (7000 dead per year, 1.5 million injured)
- Knives kill 4 TIMES more than Rifles (FBI)
- 1.7 TIMES MORE people are physically beaten to death than are killed by Rifles. (FBI)
- More people are killed with Blunt Object than are murdered by Rifles. (FBI)
- 22 veterans die EVERY SINGLE DAY by their own hand because once out of the Military we refuse to give then the help they need.


I have more....

Just some food for thought.

I'm open to your thoughts?

Steve/bluewizard
This is the very definition of confirmation bias.
The fact that these deaths are preventable is not considered.
The idea of it being in the second amendment is not relevant to today's America, unless the people of America believe they haven't moved on in the last 300 years.
It was written in so the people could overthrow a government which turned into a dictatorship. Yet you have Trump in play and STILL don't want to overthrow the government...
The bottom line is that there is no good excuse to own automatic rifles, and in my opinion, no excuse for any privately held firearm.
The only excuse given is essentially, because I want to. Its pathetic.
The people of America have more guns than the American militaries!
 

Sonic67

Banned
Well if the odds are low enough, what's the worry? it'll probably never happen to your children.
Why should it happen to any children?
It just becomes another of those random acts of life, like getting hit by lightning.
No. Lightning is nature and is nullified by storm warnings being issued and putting metal strips on tall buildings.

Shootings are man made and prevented by harsh gun laws.
 

Freestyler8

Active Member
All said like a true idio.... American.

[No idea if you're American...]

My favourite argument is that you can't change the constitution. Ahem 2nd amendment.

A lot of then truly are idiots.
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
This is the very definition of confirmation bias.
The fact that these deaths are preventable is not considered.
The idea of it being in the second amendment is not relevant to today's America, unless the people of America believe they haven't moved on in the last 300 years.
It was written in so the people could overthrow a government which turned into a dictatorship. Yet you have Trump in play and STILL don't want to overthrow the government...
The bottom line is that there is no good excuse to own automatic rifles, and in my opinion, no excuse for any privately held firearm.
The only excuse given is essentially, because I want to. Its pathetic.
The people of America have more guns than the American militaries!
Totally agree.

The figures are meaningless and prove nothing, except the mindsets of those who promulgate them.

The issue is not the number of guns, or the number of people who own them. It is their availability to anyone who wants one.

The number of gun-related crimes in the USA is a serious problem, and has been for over a century, and it is also an issue in many other countries throughout the world.

But the real issue is mass shootings, which, although not unique to the States, does seem to be peculiarly American. It is that which gun control has to target. It is facile and stupid to point out that 99.999..% of guns never murder anyone, when we constantly hear of one gun murdering tens of schoolkids. There is a one-word answer to anyone who tries to make that point: Columbine.

Other countries allow, or even insist on, their citizenship owning guns: Israel and Switzerland spring to mind (assuming they still do: I'm a bit uncertain). And we all have our fair share of loonies. But America is the only place which allows its loonies to buy an AK47 with the weekly shopping.
 

tommitch

Well-known Member
I'm sure the victims of gun crime would be pleased to know your percentages show that you're unlikely to ever be killed by a gun :smashin:
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
Why should it happen to any children?

No. Lightning is nature and is nullified by storm warnings being issued and putting metal strips on tall buildings.

Shootings are man made and prevented by harsh gun laws.
Exactly :) it was all tongue in cheek as I tried to sarcastically embrace the original post
 

Steve N

Distinguished Member
After the recent shootings in the USA, several countries put out travel advisories about foreign travel to the USA. That souds scary, but here is the truth about guns in the USA.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- **99.9963% of Gun NEVER murder anyone EVER**
Steve/bluewizard
Is that you Donald? o_O
 

krish

Distinguished Member
The prevalence of firearms creates the perception that everyone's possibly armed resulting in ongoing police killings of unarmed innocent civilians, usually ruled lawful, mostly black of course, who are given less of a chance than the white supremacist scum who've just murdered a bunch of worshipping Jews, black Methodists or shopping Latinos, and get to surrender alive.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
The prevalence of firearms creates the perception that everyone's possibly armed resulting in ongoing police killings of unarmed innocent civilians, usually ruled lawful, mostly black of course, who are given less of a chance than the white supremacist scum who've just murdered a bunch of worshipping Jews, black Methodists or shopping Latinos, and get to surrender alive.

The guns aren't going anywhere, it's part of who they are. Mass shootings are by no means limited to the US and I think anything above 3 people is classed as a mass shooting.

If someone can be taken alive that's usually the way it is. I don't buy into to the notion that there are white supremacist cops roaming the streets shooting black people even tho they are the ones committing a disproportionate amount of the gun crimes.

Plenty of MS13, bloods and crips in jail caught by police for shooting people down in gang violence, drive by's etc and if you think white guys don't get shot by cops or cops themselves aren't targets you're pretty deluded.

It's tasty headlines when it's a school or mall or kids, no one is really interested on reporting ghetto crime, because there's not enough outrage to be generated.

On the subject of mass shootings not suiting narratives, this one is by far the most interesting:

Sutherland Springs church shooting - Wikipedia
 

shotokan101

Distinguished Member
The guns aren't going anywhere, it's part of who they are. Mass shootings are by no means limited to the US and I think anything above 3 people is classed as a mass shooting.

If someone can be taken alive that's usually the way it is. I don't buy into to the notion that there are white supremacist cops roaming the streets shooting black people even tho they are the ones committing a disproportionate amount of the gun crimes.

Plenty of MS13, bloods and crips in jail caught by police for shooting people down in gang violence, drive by's etc and if you think white guys don't get shot by cops or cops themselves aren't targets you're pretty deluded.

It's tasty headlines when it's a school or mall or kids, no one is really interested on reporting ghetto crime, because there's not enough outrage to be generated.

On the subject of mass shootings not suiting narratives, this one is by far the most interesting:

Sutherland Springs church shooting - Wikipedia
Don't reallybsee your point with that link - are you trying to say that it's somehow different because he was prohibited from owning firearms?

Also there are numerous cades cited where offucers have been allowed to walk away from "murdering" suspects whether mistly black or not....
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Don't reallybsee your point with that link - are you trying to say that it's somehow different because he was prohibited from owning firearms?

Also there are numerous cades cited where offucers have been allowed to walk away from "murdering" suspects whether mistly black or not....
No, the link was to show how unknown it is in comparison to others, considering the death toll.

I'm not disputing excessive force either, it happens to all types as you point out. But the police are not the klan.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
The truth about guns in America comes down to the almighty $ outweighs loss of life . For lawmakers in the US the 2nd Amendment is a get out clause is a shield that even Sandy Hook can't change . I'm not against firearms , I have a shotgun licence in the UK and this year o have to agree to my Doctor my full medical history to the police firearms licencing division . It's so easy for the US to have the basic of gun laws but 2nd Amendment stupidity of lawmakers and gun nuts , including the disgusting NRA gives rince n repeat.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Almost certainly NRA stats,.
Everything here is documented, most Data comes from the FBI, others from Google Searches, CDC, NHTSB, and other credible sources. Most of this Data as present is not available because most are based on Calculations that I made from common and accepted Data.

No one has bothered to make these specific calculations before, and I provided the calculation so you can see where the information came from. None of the information I presented is in dispute by any knowledgeable person.

The fact remains that Conservatively, -

99.9963% of Guns in America NEVER murder anyone EVER


I showed the calculations to verify this.

Now some people estimate that the number of guns are higher than 300 Million, but that doesn't help the anti-gun people. If we assume 400 Million Guns instead of 300 million, then the problem percentage comes out SMALLER -

(11,000 / 300,000,000) x 100 = 0.0036666666... = 0.0037%

(11,000 / 400,000,000) x 100 = 0.00275%

By this new calculation, 99.99725% of Guns in America NEVER murder anyone EVER!

The problem has bee grossly exaggerated by the Media.

The calculations are my own, but the data the calculations are based on can easily be looked up on the Internet.

And might I remind you that for a brief period of time, the Murder rate in London exceeded the Murder rate in New York City.

Steve/bluewizard
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
Everything here is documented, most Data comes from the FBI, others from Google Searches, CDC, NHTSB, and other credible sources. Most of this Data as present is not available because most are based on Calculations that I made from common and accepted Data.

No one has bothered to make these specific calculations before, and I provided the calculation so you can see where the information came from. None of the information I presented is in dispute by any knowledgeable person.

The fact remains that Conservatively, -

99.9963% of Guns in America NEVER murder anyone EVER


I showed the calculations to verify this.

Now some people estimate that the number of guns are higher than 300 Million, but that doesn't help the anti-gun people. If we assume 400 Million Guns instead of 300 million, then the problem percentage comes out SMALLER -

(11,000 / 300,000,000) x 100 = 0.0036666666... = 0.0037%

(11,000 / 400,000,000) x 100 = 0.00275%

By this new calculation, 99.99725% of Guns in America NEVER murder anyone EVER!

The problem has bee grossly exaggerated by the Media.

The calculations are my own, but the data the calculations are based on can easily be looked up on the Internet.

And might I remind you that for a brief period of time, the Murder rate in London exceeded the Murder rate in New York City.

Steve/bluewizard
What a complete load of Bollox , utter bollox . Lucky for us that the UK has stringent gun laws then . Hey though wanna share other US US cities compared to London . Yup go there and report back .
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
...

... most guns go unused,....
What makes you think that? In the USA, and believe it or not, in the UK, countless millions of rounds are fired every year, mostly at targets. Even hunters fire more rounds at targets getting ready for hunting than they do at actual game.

This is one of the problems with leaving gun legislation to people who know nothing about guns ... they don't know any thing about guns or gun use.

Those 99.9963% of Guns that NEVER murder anyone EVER get used extensively, just not to murder people.

Give what you have said, I have to assume you don't realize how large shooting sports are in the UK. I suggest you search that subject on YouTube, and see what comes up.

Steve/bluewizard
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
What a complete load of Bollox , ....
Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true. And I can document everything I said. Most data is simply based on Crime Statistic provided by the FBI.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

But remember the calculations are my own. I made these calculations from commonly available and accepted Data.

Again, just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true. I mean ...get real... I showed the calculations and showed where the information came from. It is not that hard to understand.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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