Toshiba HD-EP30 3rd Generation 1080/24 HD DVD Player Review

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<img src="http://avreviews.avforums.com/includes/displayimage.php?s=reviews/17/main.jpg|140|0|0" align="right">Reviewed by Phil Hinton
Sadly the EP30 misses out on the recommended badge award as it doesn't do everything as perfectly as it should. However if you are after just a cheap and cheerful HD performer and can get around the video processing issues by using a quality display, then your money does go a long way, especially with those free movies thrown into the mix. Sadly the EP30 is in our minds a missed opportunity at this point for all round greatness, but if you are prepared for cheap build quality and good HD playback, mixed with a few issues that may or may not be fixed by firmware and your using a quality display, you probably cannot argue with the sub £200 price point. Cheap HD is here, just not quite as perfect as it could be, but the fact is, it may still get better!

Read the full review...
 
Also, read my review here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650186



I must admit that I find your review a little harsh for the following reasons:

Boot up times - I think i covered this pretty much in my review. It has improved from G2 machines, I doubt that any other HD playback device from either format is much quicker, bar the PS3.

Region 2 locked for DVD - this is part of the DVD spec!!! There is every chance that there may be a workaround in time, but still harsh to criticise it for adhering to an agreed specification.

Build quality - never understand why people go on about this. It sits in a rack!! IMHO the quality is fine anyway, it just doesn't happen to be formed from a single piece of steel.

Occasional software freeze - I have had mine for over 2 months now, and not had a single one. I've seen almost mo rports from others on this forum. Certainly no more than any other HD player, and people scrutinise these things to death.

Lack of bitstream audio. At the end of the day, the only codecs the machine won't decode are the new ones from DTS, and only a few HD DVDs support these anyway. Plus, the product range is quite easy to work out, in that the EP35 is like an EP30 but with bitstream for those that require it. Harsh to criticise as the omission of bitstream is obviously to keep the price of the base model down, and who needs it anyway.

I haven't run the same video processing tests as yourselves so won't describe this as harsh, but in my setup I've used it for DVD upscaling to my projector screen, and compared to my PT-AX100 projector, Sony DVP-NS76H DVD player, HD-E1 HD DVD player and PS3, only the PS3 produced a better picture. For a machine at this price I felt it did a super job.


In the final reconning, the machine has superb HD DVD PQ & AQ. It can be bought for £180 which includes 7 discs, which practically reduces the price to about £75 for the machine, which includes a free HDMI cable!!! Like i say I've had 2 months of flawless performance from it, as a £75 high definition player it has few peers - your review is very harsh - even if I was to accept that the DVD upscaling is poor, which I do not!!

Maybe if it had a Pioneer badge on and cost £600 it would have been treated more fairly!!
 
Really good to see a review with some solid technical analysis, rather than the wooly "looks good/bad" type reviews we tend to see in the mags over here. Thanks Phil!
 
Let me start by saying that the review uses objective tests, is fair minded and gives a lot of information. I just think that there is perhaps a misjudgement in its likely use.

How many people with an expensive projector etc are going to buy a budget machine like the EP30? The EP30 is most likely to be used with flat screens 'only' sized 32-42 inches or so. As was said in the review, on that sort of set up, things were a lot better. Plus, it's quite likely that the sound systems used will at best be pretty bog standard, so bemoaning the absence of a particularly sophisticated sound output will probably be irrelevant to the majority of consumers. It's a bit like taking a good budget car and chastising it for not being a Rolls Royce. Accordingly, I think the review is a bit harsh given the likely environment in which the EP30 will be used.

I should also say that I ran similar technical tests on my EP30 and found nowhere near as bad a set of findings. It wasn't earth-shattering, but it did a bit better than scores of zero! Plus, other reviews I've read (even if only of the 'looks good' variety) are very complementary about it, and if anything were seriously wrong, I'm pretty sure even these reviews would have mentioned it.
 
How many people with an expensive projector etc are going to buy a budget machine like the EP30? The EP30 is most likely to be used with flat screens 'only' sized 32-42 inches or so.

Hrm, I'm not so sure. There aren't many HD-DVD players to choose from at the moment, and really your only other option is the XE-1 if you want to go more upmarket (which in itself is debatable). I'm not including the EP35 as it's essentially the same player as the EP30 but with a few more features. I think you'll find an awful lot of projector owners going for these new Toshiba units...myself included, I'll be using my EP35 on a 10ft screen, so how it looks in such a setup is certainly relevant to me.
 
I'm using mine on a 42" Sharp LCD and it's filling my expectations of HD nicely. I only wanted an entry model to begin with and this seems more than fine, the free films are a real bonus and the price point is fantastic. I do have two minor moans, one is that the blue 'power on' light is so bright that in a dark room it really does interfere with your field of vision and makes a mockery of the dimming display option. A small piece of electrical tape sorted that out.... My second gripe is that I'm used to a smart play option on my old helios upscaler which bypasses all the copyright guff and the anti-piracy ads. I now have to endure every excruciating moment of it or go and make tea or something. It really annoys me actually, the fact that it's on there I mean, how many people who spend ££££'s on HD kit then go and watch p!ss poor pirate copies??

Peter: I know Darling, as it's a lovely day why don't we go for a run in the car?
Susan: Oh yes, superb idea. We could put the top down and everything!!
Peter: No no dear, I thought we'd take the Micra instead of the Jag. Save a few on the old petrol.
Susan: ...........Have a day off Dear.

Why do we put up with it on DVD's? Imagine you had to listen to an unskippable audio track of the copyright warning on CD's? Or before TV programmes?


Anyway, I'm going off on one here. Back to the player, it's superbly priced is a great entry into the HD realm and would be spot on for the average home setup. If it's not good enough for you then buy one for your Dad.
 
I think you'll find an awful lot of projector owners going for these new Toshiba units...myself included, I'll be using my EP35 on a 10ft screen, so how it looks in such a setup is certainly relevant to me.
Fair comment - but in terms of overall sales, I think projector owners will still be a minority of EP30 owners. Notwithstanding this, in the second part of my post I did say that with my version of the EP30 I didn't find problems to be this extreme and nor, by the sound of it, have other reviewers.
 
Fair comment - but in terms of overall sales, I think projector owners will still be a minority of EP30 owners. Notwithstanding this, in the second part of my post I did say that with my version of the EP30 I didn't find problems to be this extreme and nor, by the sound of it, have other reviewers.

Which is reassuring to me as I've yet to hook my EP35 up to a projector and I'm hoping I haven't made a mistake in buying it!
 
Guys,

Thanks for your comments. I thought long and hard before publishing our review and even tried to get the manufacturer involved to see if they were working on an update which would help us in recommending the machine. They have yet to come back to us after almost three months.

We try to be as objective as possible with our reviews and not fall into the subjective hole that the majority of other reviews do. The tests are done fairly and double and triple checked to make sure the information we give you is accurate. The firmware is also checked to make sure it is the latest version.

Viewing tests were done on both the HC6000 projector and as I mention in the review, a 46" LCD screen. On the 46" the problems are still there but are far less noticable, as they would be by changing screen size. We cover both bases as we realise that people will be using either or both with their purchase.

As to whether you see the same issues is quite a valid point. It could be that you are actually using the displays processing which is masking that of the player.
Since video processors can be found in both televisions and Bluray/
HDDVD players, it is important to avoid duplicate processing of the signal.
When evaluating the HDTV make sure to put the HD DVD player into 1080i
output mode. When testing the Blu-ray or HD DVD player turn the setting to
either 1080p or 720p output (720p still requires proper video processing of a
1080i source as the 720p image is created by scaling down from the 1080i to
1080p conversion).
The tests we use are industry standard and produced by Silicon Optix, a lot of manufacturers use these tests on their products.

I also feel that some of you are reading things into the review that are not there. Boot up time is important as someone might buy the machine and then wonder why it takes so long, it's a problem for all players so should be mentioned, we even critised the XE-1 for this and it's a reference player.
Occasional software freeze is a problem for some machines, even the XE-1 and the EP30 we had for review. Lack of bitstream audio is also an area that causes confusion (just look at the forums) and when people buy a new amp capable of decoding they want to know if this is the player for them. These points are not necessarily putting the player in question down but rather highlights the issues that are there and need to be explained and explored.

Build quality is also very important to some people, even if it does sit in a rack. You can usually tell how good some components are by the weight and design especially power supply. You wouldn't buy an amp that weighed the same as a player, likewise the best players out there do have improved power supplies and other components, the XE-1 is a good example as is my imported XA-1 which has fantastic build quality and feels sturdy. (plus even for a Generation 1 player the XA-1 upscaling is stunning when compared to this 3rd Generation player).

The main point made in this review is that going on the objective testing and living with the player for a number of weeks, it could have scored top marks had it not been for some issues we saw on the big screen (as well as the 46") and the poor processing.

In this state and not using other processing in your video chain we feel there are a few players out there that have had these issues resolved and give a better all round performance. Hopefully Toshiba will fix these issues with their next firmware upgrade and if that is the case, we will revisit this review and the testing.

If you have bought an EP30 then my advice would be to let the display do most of the video processing with DVD playback. If your not seeing the issues we have discovered then live happily with your machine and don't let anyone point out the issues to you ;)

We pride ourselves on producing accurate reviews, sometimes people will for whatever reason disagree which is why where we can, use nothing but objective testing which you cannot fudge or misinterpret, how many other reviews and reviewers do that, I don't know. And how many would also come back to answer questions and explain tests etc.?
 
They have yet to come back to us after almost three months.
... and let's face it, Toshiba has no need to do a good PR job given the runaway success of HD DVD at the moment. ;)

Phil, I agree with what you've said. All I was trying to say was that in the normal run of things, most users would probably not notice a lot of the problems (and indeed you've spelt out the same message in your reply).

I'm also left with a residual doubt about whether there are differences between batches of ostensibly the same model. I haven't the same test disc that you've used, but have the DVE disc, and whilst there were problems akin to those you describe on some of the more demanding tests, they weren't as severe as yours. And upscaling of SD is excellent on mine. This wouldn't be the first time different batches of the same model have differed. E.g. a few years ago I convinced a friend to buy the same CD player as mine on the basis of how mine performed. But his, supposedly identical, model just plain sucked. It was even lighter and obviously less well built. Even if not that extreme, as we all know, the same design with components from different manufacturers and less proficient wiring and soldering could make a big difference.
 
I think the criticism on picture quality is completely deserved, except when using 1080p24. That's the only way to get good quality output from the EP30 - and it seems flawless.

For upscaling DVDs, get an Oppo. :)


edit: Maybe I was a bit harsh on upscaling. If the source is clean 3:2 or 2:2 pulldown, the EP30 manages ok.
 
My main gripe with the review was that it seemed to dwell on some fairly minor issues, whilst providing insufficient information to back up some other sweeping statements.

Quote:
"There are a number of cheap HD DVD players now available in the market place and many have been updated by firmware to allow things such as 24fps playback and bitstream output for audio. We would probably at this stage advise that you track down these machines or the EP30s bigger brother and spend just a few more pounds for improved build quality and performance."

In the UK you have a choice of the E1, EP10, EP30, EP35 & XE1. The E1 would be hard to track down now and is the only one that can't output 1080/24p, whilst the EP10 is similarly hard to find and is essentially the Generation 2 equivalent of the EP30. Neither of these is a 'better' machine than the EP30, and neither come with 2 discs free in the box. The realistic alternatives are the EP35, which is essentially the same as the EP30, but offers bitstream output and also analogue outputs. It should have been clearly stated that both of these features are only worth having if you can, or indeed wish to take advantage of them. In my case, my amp will accept LPCM over HDMI but not bitstream, and I have no real desire to try out analogue output - so for myself, as with many other consumers, these are optional extras which I don't wish to pay £70 or so for. All reports from the US forums amongst other sources confirm that in terms of performance, the 2 are equal, with the EP35 simply offering additional sound options. If you wish to spend more still, the XE1 essentially offers the same features as the EP35, but includes a Silicon Optics Reon chip which helps the XE1 to provide superb DVD upscaling. In summary, I felt the above statement was very sweeping and did nothing to establish exactly what the other options were.

Putting such undue attention on the video processing was also I felt a little unfair as this relates mainly to standard definition material. It seems that the biggest issue the EP30 has with HD material, is when outputting 1080/60p, because it first interlaces the 1080/24p from the disc into 1080/60i, then deinterlaces this into 1080/60p. From all accounts, the EP30 like the EP10 before it does this relatively poorly, which is something that deserves highlighting, and which Toshiba really should have dealt with moving into the 3rd generation machines. Obviously I haven't done the same tests as the reviewer, but as I've said above, I watch on a 100" screen, and the EP30 does a much better job of upscaling standard definition DVD than my Sony DVP-NS76H DVD player. This has itself been a relatively well rated budget upscaler costing around £100 a year or so back. I think my point here is that by all means comment on it's SD performance, but it's main function is as a HD DVD player. Putting it in perspective, I'm certain that if you reviewed a £600 Denon DVD player with the best DVD playback in the world, you would be cooing about it's phenomenal picture and declaring the machine a bargain. This HD DVD player that costs £180 online, and when taking into account the 7 free discs and HDMI cable costs the equivalent of about £75 at the moment, can outperform budget and match midrange DVD players for SD playback, but obviously falls short when compared to elite DVD players. The thing is though, not only is it cheaper, but HD DVD played on this 'budget deck', will absolutely and utterly comprehensively destroy the best DVD transfer even played back on the world's best DVD player.

In summary, I would expect that most people are buying this player to watch HD DVD not DVD, and your review would have come acroos as fairer if you pointed out that it offers:

1080/24p video output, which is the very best option available. You could have pointed out the flawed 1080/60p output, and highlighted that the XE1 may be a better option for those wishing to achieve the very best DVD upscaling performance.

Onboard decoding of advanced audio codecs DD+ & Dolby TrueHD, and will extract the 'core' 1.5MB tracks from the advanced DTS codecs. Again, it would be reasonable to highlight that the EP35 offers further options for those that may require them, and a brief explanation of why such people may need them would have been useful.

Fully compatible with all HD DVD features.

Obviously it was a shame that the unit you had in for testing seemed to have a few freezing issues, but a decent scan of the HD DVD player forum on this site should have confirmed that it is no more susceptible to these issues than any other HD player (with the possible exception of the PS3).

Essentially it is an almost fully specced HD DVD player available at a phenomenal price, but unfortunately your review dwelled far too long on minor issues whilst completely failing to highlight the player's many positive attributes.
 
Another thorough and searching review Phil. Nice one. There's nothing I would disagree with and find the criticisms entirely justified in the light of my own experience, although I would dare try to quantify them to such an exacting degree. I'm wondering if some of the reaction is due to a conclusion that isn't in the least fudged, as would be more familiar from the printed press and unfortunatley, some online reviews as of late.

Keep it up and stay, unapologetically independent.:smashin:

FWIW, as can be seen from my signature, I am a projector user with one of these budget HD-DVD players and coincidentally, it's an HC6000. I bought it over the Panasonic PT-AE2000 (which would have required an extra two week wait :eek:) precisely because it's video processing was consistently praised in reviews. This was particularly important to me as the PJ is used for all my viewing, making more reliant on quality SD video processing than most.

Back to back, I prefer the scaling of the Mitsubishi to that of the EP-35 and I believe it to be the same chip-set in both the EP-30 & 35. To my eye, the preference is a result of better motion handling in particular, although I would state it's all relative - the EP35 is still noticeably better in all respects than my old Denon DVD-3910 for instance. That's an interesting comparison, because the Tosh cost half as much as the Denon depreciated in two years.

However, for me, it's a no brainer. Throw in the actually really dire SD upscaling/deinterlacing of my other HD source - Sky HD, and it's easier to let the PJ, sort it all out, thus negating any concern except HD-DVD playback.

To me, it seems obvious to simply buy the display with the best processing you can and then each source can be left to major in it's true purpose. It makes more sense to buy decent processing once rather than every time you buy a source, so the SD quality of the EP-35 iss of little or no concern.

In respect of the HD-DVD performance, I find the Toshiba very satisfying and it will serve me well until until the format war settles. At which point, a more serious player of completely implemented spec and certain future may exist and would be a realistic proposition worth dropping the extra coin on.

Russell
 
In summary, I would expect that most people are buying this player to watch HD DVD not DVD, and your review would have come acroos as fairer if you pointed out that it offers:

1080/24p video output, which is the very best option available. You could have pointed out the flawed 1080/60p output, and highlighted that the XE1 may be a better option for those wishing to achieve the very best DVD upscaling performance.

Onboard decoding of advanced audio codecs DD+ & Dolby TrueHD, and will extract the 'core' 1.5MB tracks from the advanced DTS codecs. Again, it would be reasonable to highlight that the EP35 offers further options for those that may require them, and a brief explanation of why such people may need them would have been useful.

All of those issues are mentioned within the review so I don't understand what your problem is with the review.

Obviously it was a shame that the unit you had in for testing seemed to have a few freezing issues, but a decent scan of the HD DVD player forum on this site should have confirmed that it is no more susceptible to these issues than any other HD player (with the possible exception of the PS3).

So what you are saying is that this should be expected from the format and shouldn't be mentioned? I feel it my duty to report on all aspects of the player performance.

Essentially it is an almost fully specced HD DVD player available at a phenomenal price, but unfortunately your review dwelled far too long on minor issues whilst completely failing to highlight the player's many positive attributes.

I happen to think that video processing is a very important area of the product and indeed the XE1 received our reference badge because it was such a stunning all rounder. While it is true that the EP30 is a budget machine it is also being marketed as a great upscaler and many other reviews have even claimed this. However our tests have proven otherwise and we simply cannot ignore that. What I feel we should be doing is pushing Toshiba to improve the performance but like I have said they have yet to come back to us on this issue. Video processing is also used for HD playback in certain resolutions and again it was below par (if you are feeding 1080P then your display is handling this not the player). This is VERY important information which it is my duty as a reviewer to mention to my readers.

What would have been easy here would have been a review which praised the EP30 to the hilt and ignored the results our tests gave us, because we wouldn't want to upset people who have bought this machine on the forums and are happy with it. But you won't find reviews like that from this website, if there are issues we will report these and its then up to the reader to put as much or as little importance on these as they want. Obviously what we will try and do on behalf of our readers is to go to the manufacturer and tell them what we have found and push for a fix. But we won't apologise or follow the simple route to keep people happy like some reviews you will find out there online and in the printed press. What importance you put on that is entirely up to you.

I'm glad you guys have read the review and hope you continue to support our future reviews.
 
IFor upscaling DVDs, get an Oppo. :)
I really must hook my Oppo up again, and try to see what I'm obviously not picking up here. (It's sitting right below the EP30, probably in a bit of a huff because it's not getting any action at the moment. ;))

Reading this review I wouldn't have touched the EP30 with a barge pole. And I'd expect its SD upscaling performance to be dire (to the point if it being totally evident as soon as you watch familiar scenes in a movie - I had an experience like this with an early Samsung upscaler).

Yet, I have bought it, am watching it on a decent projector, and I've never been anything but very satisfied with the performance. SD or HD.

True, I haven't tested it phorensically like the review, and (I may be wrong on this) but I think the EP30 is the first player to have its video performance rated like this - I can't see a similar table for the XE1 for example.

I don't doubt the review's validity, it's an excellent detailed piece of work, but until a reasonable number of peer machines (SD, BR and HD) are reviewed in the same way it's difficult to put this review into perspective.
 
Which is reassuring to me as I've yet to hook my EP35 up to a projector and I'm hoping I haven't made a mistake in buying it!

You havent as the scaling qualites of the E35 is great imo, i am thoroughly satisfied with it and have no desire or intention to replace it or try another upscaling DVD player. I prefer it over my HCPC and PS3 in terms of scaling and sound output as it passes the bitstream to the amp. I am using it to scale SDDVD to 720p; and for HDDVD duties as well.

It is another excellent and detailed review Phil and i appreciate your approach to the review but like PJ states if i didnt own an EP30 or EP35 (assuming its the same processing chip etc) then i would be put off from buying one, which imo is a real shame as i would definitely be missing out on an excellent machine imo. I dont have all the gadgets and gizmos to test like you do but to my eye it is perfectly fine assuming it is the Tosh that is doing the scaling.
 
great my ep30 blows chunks :(

only bought it to play transformers, not intersted in dvd, audio etc etc

if the remaining studios bail on hd when the contracts are up in a few weeks i will certainly be glad i didnt invest alot in a top of the range hd player
 
good review, always nice to see some objective measures.

I have to say that I am surprised at the main conclusions though.

My (less rigorous it has to be said) testing of various upscaling sources (PS3, upscaling SD DVD - can't rememer which one and the EP-30) had the EP-30 well ahead of the competition on all the SD stuff I threw at them. This is on a 42" LCD (42X3030D) so there is a major difference in the display size vs the review.

I don't think I'm alone in this either as many of the ppl on the forum who have both PS3 and EP-3x rate the Tosh as better at scaling than the PS3.

As I said though objective measures vs my much more subjective assessment are really good to see. Based on my personal experience I would have recommended an EP-30 to most anyone based on its upscaling of SD content.

Perhaps i've missed it but are there any reviews using exactly the same objective measures for PS3, XE1, a good sd dvd upscaler, dedicated scalar etc?
 
All of those issues are mentioned within the review so I don't understand what your problem is with the review.



So what you are saying is that this should be expected from the format and shouldn't be mentioned? I feel it my duty to report on all aspects of the player performance.



I happen to think that video processing is a very important area of the product and indeed the XE1 received our reference badge because it was such a stunning all rounder. While it is true that the EP30 is a budget machine it is also being marketed as a great upscaler and many other reviews have even claimed this. However our tests have proven otherwise and we simply cannot ignore that. What I feel we should be doing is pushing Toshiba to improve the performance but like I have said they have yet to come back to us on this issue. Video processing is also used for HD playback in certain resolutions and again it was below par (if you are feeding 1080P then your display is handling this not the player). This is VERY important information which it is my duty as a reviewer to mention to my readers.

What would have been easy here would have been a review which praised the EP30 to the hilt and ignored the results our tests gave us, because we wouldn't want to upset people who have bought this machine on the forums and are happy with it. But you won't find reviews like that from this website, if there are issues we will report these and its then up to the reader to put as much or as little importance on these as they want. Obviously what we will try and do on behalf of our readers is to go to the manufacturer and tell them what we have found and push for a fix. But we won't apologise or follow the simple route to keep people happy like some reviews you will find out there online and in the printed press. What importance you put on that is entirely up to you.

I'm glad you guys have read the review and hope you continue to support our future reviews.


Didn't mean to be rude at all, but you say above that it's up to us to decide what importance to put on certain issues.

I think the reason why myself and others have taken issue with this review is that you have actually decided what importance to give particular issues. Of course we appreciate the effort and the detail you've gone to, but to most of us it seemed that the 'video processing' issue seemed to dominate the review, when this is 'largely' irrelevant for HD issue. People are buying it for HD playback and common consensus is that for this it is excellent. Unlike your statement, it is not necessary to look at the other models instead per se, only if they happen to have a feature which the EP30 lacks and you require. The EP30 is no better or worse than the other Toshiba players, in regards of quality / reliability etc. And in truth, the evidence of most users is that it performs similarly to a midrange DVD player for SD playback.

Anyway I'll end it there........it's been a tough week in work!! I hope that if you were to reread the review you may be able to see that it is harsh, given that when coupled with the right equipment, the EP30 is able to match the PQ & AQ of far pricier HD players from both formats. If SD quality truly was as bad as you say, then even so, HD playback for such a stunningly low price alone is reason enough to buy one in itself.
 
I'm sorry to say this but if I'd read this review before buying I would be about £500 better off... But I'm glad I did not as I now have a problem free high quality player which also upscales better than my old Samsung 960 dvd player, and on top of that I've now got a great HD-DVD disc collection...
 
If you are feeding your display a 1080P (60/24) picture from the player and your display has good processing, you may not be seeing all the issues from the player (which has poor processing as evidenced in our tests). I don't happen to think we have been unfair in any way and stick with our conclusions here. All the information is in the review, I guess it's just the way you read it and what you put emphasis on, which determines what you take from it. It also only missed a 'Recommended' badge by about 1 mark overall, so i fail to see why 'owners' are getting so upset. I will ask a couple of independant people (not owners) to read the review and look at the phrasing and see if they are getting the correct feeling from how we have presented things, don't ever let it be said that we don't look at feedback to make things easier to understand and make sure the correct message gets out there. I happen to think it's an accurate review, but with so many people clearly picking things up which I haven't said or meant is either owners being over zellous of their purchase, or the phrasing and content needs looking at closely.
 
I want to make it clear that I applaud objective reviews, rather than giving something 5 stars just because "it looks nice".

I've seen so many "emperors new clothes" reviews in various mags. Five stars thrown about like it's going out of fashion. And been misled on the basis of them.

But this just feels like a whole new paradigm. It makes the EP-30 sound like a real turkey. Which, unless there's a mass-delusional thing going on, is patently not true.
 
It also only missed a 'Recommended' badge by about 1 mark overall, so i fail to see why 'owners' are getting so upset.

But it was described as "a miss".

A 3rd gen HD machine that broke the (vital) £200 barrier in the UK. And came with 7 free movies.

Could we have dreamed of such a thing 6 months ago?

A miss?

It's another kick in the ganglies for HD-DVD too.

Perhaps it's a timing thing. First we're told the format is dead. Then we're told the machine we invested in "blows chunks" (as one person so elequently put it).

What did you expect? :)
 
But it was described as "a miss".

A 3rd gen HD machine that broke the (vital) £200 barrier in the UK. And came with 7 free movies.

Could we have dreamed of such a thing 6 months ago?

A miss?

It's another kick in the ganglies for HD-DVD too.

Perhaps it's a timing thing. First we're told the format is dead. Then we're told the machine we invested in "blows chunks" (as one person so elequently put it).

What did you expect? :)

It doesn't blow chunks so lets get that clear for a start.

The points I was trying to make have been lost in the text, which after feedback from other quarters and what has been said here (although not directly and it hasn't changed our view) I am prepared to admit that the wording may have been too negative and the phrase "sadly its a miss" was taken out of the context it was meant in. I have therefor reworded the conclusion and also added more detail in the video processing test area. I hope that this clears up our point of view and gives an even fairer overview. We do take on the feedback given as we really do want to be the best and most respected review site on the net. We are happy to clear up any issues which like here have caused some crossed wires or an over negative feeling on readers. It's not a perfect machine and we haven't changed our stand point, we just wanted to make things clearer to understand our stand point. I hope you all continue to support our reviews and help us attain the best on the net.
 
I've re-read it and think the rewording gets the points across much more clearly, without as you say changing any aspect of your findings.

These will build up to the finest collection of in-depth reviews on the net by the looks of it. :smashin:
 
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