Question Vocals volume- movie vs youtube

Dirk213

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Hi all,

Watching movies, say blade runner 2049 on Netflix using nvidia shield or built in TV, I have issues with the vocals. They sound like the actors are muttering with no clarity. Requiring a massive boost to volume. Normal is 50 (onkyo,absolute) netflix movie would need 70+

I've been thinking - eq is wrong, too much bass on centre, my room acoustics, sitting too far from speakers, avr config, left/right over powering the centre.

I've tried no eq, turn off accuEq room calibration, treble increase, rewired to take bi amp off, made my own preset eq with 100-250hz volume boosted along with centre channel +3 volume. The tv logic mode is best bet but only a marginal gain.

Maybe I've been over complicating it because YouTube from the same nvidia Shield has solid vocals at 50, if it was still at 70 it would be so loud it would be borderline painful.

I tested basic tv series on netflix like Santa clarita diet and the vocals are loud, maybe volume set at 57 so it seems any major AAA movie, not the netflix app itself. Harry potter - my mother couldn't hear the vocals and just had to turn it off. If I'm struggling then her hearing must get none of it!

It would be great to hear some ideas if anyone has further input?

Getting to the point I'll throw money at the problem and get a much better centre speaker but it might still carry on if I can hear vocals from youtube fine.

Onkyo tx-rz 900
Monitor audio bronze 6 + centre + fx in 5.2
Room size 5.1 long 4m wide
Main listening from 4m
 
If calibrated correctly then the receiver will have levelled all your speakers relative to your lisyening location using a standardise reference volume. This same level is the level used by the studios mixing movie soundtracks. If you therefore set your receiver's master volume scale to a relative scale then the receiver's volume would equate to reference when set to 0db. This would result in you getting the full dynamic range as intended by whoever mixed that soundtrack. This is howver quite loud for most households so many will set the master volume lower, usually in the region of -20 to -10db.

Things to try in order to compensate for not depicting the audio at reference are to try bosting the centre speaker's level by a few db or to try engage some fore of Dynamic Range Control or compression. Many AV receiver's include some form of night listening mode that can comppensate for the dynamic range while listening at lower volumes.
 
If calibrated correctly then the receiver will have levelled all your speakers relative to your lisyening location using a standardise reference volume. This same level is the level used by the studios mixing movie soundtracks. If you therefore set your receiver's master volume scale to a relative scale then the receiver's volume would equate to reference when set to 0db. This would result in you getting the full dynamic range as intended by whoever mixed that soundtrack. This is howver quite loud for most households so many will set the master volume lower, usually in the region of -20 to -10db.

Things to try in order to compensate for not depicting the audio at reference are to try bosting the centre speaker's level by a few db or to try engage some fore of Dynamic Range Control or compression. Many AV receiver's include some form of night listening mode that can comppensate for the dynamic range while listening at lower volumes.


Hi Dante,

Does that mean when a movie comes on vs. youtube/tv series the AVR is triggering to theatre reference levels? Something a tv show wouldn't do?I've been treating it all the same.

I did try changing to relative volume in the past. Went for 0db on master and got scared and left it. When its that high I could hear quiet hum from the speakers.

I've got a basic spl meter and did the 75 db on each channel but I did it when the master volume was around 60 absolute. Could this be the cause?


P.s.Also read one of your posts on changing the monitor audio FX to dipole. I was surprised but you converted me. Using them at 90 degrees on the surrounds in bipole it was swamping the sofa and had no directionality to where the surround was coming from. Thanks for that tip, much appreciated
 
YouTub's audio may not correspond the the multichannel mix original done. YouTube doesn't convey or carry multichannel audio and everything is 2 channel stereo in nature was uploaded and or hosted by YouTube.

I'd initially suggest you rerun the auto calibration. THere's no benefit associated with using the absolute scale and calibration a point on this scale you've determined for use as reference. Use the relative scale and you'll always know that reference is 0db. Even if manually calibrating the levels and equalising them relative to your location, use the relative scale and 0db as reference.
 
Muffled vocals can be caused by poor speaker positioning, what are your front speaker positions like? Especially the centre.
 
Muffled vocals can be caused by poor speaker positioning, what are your front speaker positions like? Especially the centre.


The photo might be a little fish bowled to get it all in it's on panoramic

Centre is sitting on auralex foam. I dont think the room would allow me pulling it forward any more than a couple inches. Tried to keep left and right away from the walls. I had a crazy echo so a little GIK panels on first reflection point
 

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Spooky, just finished watching El Camino.

I have my centre on a cabinet shelf but I have the front of it sitting proud by about 25mm. My cabinet though is higher than yours at around 60cm, roughly the same height that a stand would be. Just like you I have wooden flooring, well laminate, and a rug in roughly the same position. Dialogue is crystal.

You could try upping the crossover from I assume 80hz.
 
Spooky, just finished watching El Camino.

I have my centre on a cabinet shelf but I have the front of it sitting proud by about 25mm. My cabinet though is higher than yours at around 60cm, roughly the same height that a stand would be. Just like you I have wooden flooring, well laminate, and a rug in roughly the same position. Dialogue is crystal.

You could try upping the crossover from I assume 80hz.

I moved the centre from 80 to 90 and pulled the centre to the edge of the cabinet then moved the rug. Might be in my head but I think it's a bit better, marginal gains.
 
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If calibrated correctly then the receiver will have levelled all your speakers relative to your lisyening location using a standardise reference volume. This same level is the level used by the studios mixing movie soundtracks. If you therefore set your receiver's master volume scale to a relative scale then the receiver's volume would equate to reference when set to 0db. This would result in you getting the full dynamic range as intended by whoever mixed that soundtrack. This is howver quite loud for most households so many will set the master volume lower, usually in the region of -20 to -10db.

Things to try in order to compensate for not depicting the audio at reference are to try bosting the centre speaker's level by a few db or to try engage some fore of Dynamic Range Control or compression. Many AV receiver's include some form of night listening mode that can comppensate for the dynamic range while listening at lower volumes.

I've set the master volume to -10db relative then re-ran the the setup.

The AVR dropped to it's own volume soon as the set up started so for this model it didn't change the process.

The distances from main listening position to speakers were all off by 15cm after the auto calibrate. Updated this manually after and changed cross overs back up to 80 L/R 90 C and 90 Surround

Tried a scene in Blade Runner 2049 again where they're muttering. I can hear it all but the master volume has to be -10db to maybe -5

Moving back to a youtube video it has to be reduce to -30db or the roof would blow off my house.

I can live with it if it's normal behaviour to have to change so drastically. I could understand if I was changing hardware sources but it's just content changes within 1 source.

Couple last questions

  • Is it worth getting another better mic for the auto calibration or is it built to expect the freq. response of the mic that comes with it?
  • Will running a movie at -5db damage the AVR or speakers if the volume in the room is acceptable? Is it drawing a lot more power to amplify the source so much? Or is the power draw relative to the volume in the room?
  • A lot of you will hate this idea- if I bought a more sensitive centre speaker so same power creates more volume. Then over time maybe change out L/R to match the same sound signature. I listen to music in stereo so panning in surround movies would be main issue. Not sure if I have the ear to hear 2 different brands in that situation, haven't tried it before.
 
You do not need to adjust the master volume prior to the calibration. The receiver will automatically override the master volume setting and sets the volume at 0db during the calibration.

Again, no idea why you keep trying to force the receiver to use a reference point other than the 0db recognised one?

Distances are not actual measurements of physical distances and are a result of the receiver measureing how long the test tone takes to reach where the mic is located. This will vary depending upon any additional processing being applied and is rarely if ever the same physical distance for a sub:

Distance
Seriously, how important can this be? You let auto-calibration take care of this for you, or if you’re feeling particularly hands on, you might whip out the tape measure, right? A word of wisdom: don’t underestimate the power of the distance setting in your A/V receiver. Obviously the primary job of the distance setting is setting a delay relative to your other speakers. Note, the distance reported by your receiver’s auto-calibration will be inclusive of any delay caused by signal processing happening inside the subwoofer (EQ, low pass filtering, etc.), which can add several feet to the distance per your tape measure. Above and beyond this, the distance adjustment functions as a phase control of sorts. Adding or subtracting a couple feet from the distance of your subwoofer is a viable way of getting rid of an ugly peak or dip around the crossover point. Again, to make the most out of this tool, one does need the ability to take measurements. Still, who would have ever thought such an innocuous setting could have that kind of power?

An auto calibration will always override and erase any manual crossover and speaker size configurations you've made prior to it. You would need to manually configure these again post calibration.

It is more often than not that stereo sources do need to be portrayed at a lower volume. I'd imagine that YouTube rmploy more compression and as such compress the dynamic range while converting whatever is uploaded to them?

  • Is it worth getting another better mic for the auto calibration or is it built to expect the freq. response of the mic that comes with it?
  • Will running a movie at -5db damage the AVR or speakers if the volume in the room is acceptable? Is it drawing a lot more power to amplify the source so much? Or is the power draw relative to the volume in the room?
  • A lot of you will hate this idea- if I bought a more sensitive centre speaker so same power creates more volume. Then over time maybe change out L/R to match the same sound signature. I listen to music in stereo so panning in surround movies would be main issue. Not sure if I have the ear to hear 2 different brands in that situation, haven't tried it before.


No, the mic supplied is the only one you should use. The receiver's target curves are designed for use with that mic. You actually risk the calibration being worse by using a third party mic, even if this mic is superior to that which is supplied with the unit.

No, it is ublikely that listening at -8db would ordinarilly damage anything unless you are sat some considerable distance from the speakers? If you hear distortion then decrease the master volume.

The centre speaker would be calibrated in the exact same manner irrespective of who made it. Using more sensitive speakers would however decrease the amount of power they need to attain reference relative to your listening location. It is generally advised that you try to keep the front 3 speakers the same or at least get them from the same range made by the same manufacturer. This is to maintain the same tomal parity as audio pans across from one of these speakers to the other. Tonal differences can become very noticable and quite annoying otherwise.
 
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Have you tried using the Late Night function on the receiver?

Late Night: Make small sounds to be easily heard. It is useful when you need to reduce the volume while watching a movie late night. You can enjoy the effect only with Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS sources.
・ Turning the unit to standby mode will set the setting to "Off". In case of Dolby TrueHD, the setting will be set to "Auto".
・ The setting cannot be used in the following cases. – If "3. Audio Adjust" - "Dolby" - "Loudness
Management" in the Setup menu is set to "Off"
when playing Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD – When the input signal is DTS and "Dialog
Control" is other than 0 dB
 
Again, no idea why you keep trying to force the receiver to use a reference point other than the 0db recognised one?


I'm new to the idea of reference point. Haven't read about movies being mastered at this point, normally just use the speakers for music and for some reason hasn't come up in any reading.

My AVR range when set to relative is -80db to +16 so 0db is near 90% on the master volume. I'm genuinely nervous of having it so high.


For a more real life example -

At -30dB volume, basic vocals, just talking on youtube, is reading 75dB on SPL meter in my main listening position 4m from speakers. To then set the master volume up to -5dB to hear a movie vocals at the same volume of Youtube just doesn't seem normal to me. In my head a linear scale would make sense, hence the reason for checking in with you guys.


YouTube might be a bad example because TV series on Netflix don't need this boost either. The Good Place is -30dB and perfect.

I'll have a read through your bass mgmt. article, thanks
 

 
THere's nothing preventing you from reducing the master volume if the receiver is correctly calibrated to the accepted reference level. You are not reducing the power needed by altering to which point equates to reference. You are simply alter the reference point. Leave it set to 0 and it makes far more sense than having to try remember where you've manually relocated it.


What you appear to have an issue with is the manner in which YouTube transcode audio being uploaded to their servers? THis is not an issue with your receiver, speakers or the calibration. You say it yourself, it isn't an issue with other services.
 
What you appear to have an issue with is the manner in which YouTube transcode audio being uploaded to their servers?


I opened with a poor comparison at the start not knowing if it was config or the speakers or the room

It's not only youtube but any tv show even on netflix itself. Spotify would be the same. Gaming as well.

It might be that all sources are too loud except movies which will be correct when configured at 75db on spl.

Spotify at 0dB would probably flip my sofa over.

I'm ok with the big volume hike for movies if no one is hearing alarm bells when I'm saying I'm going from -30 all the way to -5 for a movie. Theres no clipping or distortion at the higher master volume when watching the movie.

Just going to correct my distances now back to the auto calibrated amounts instead of tape measure and think that's it done. Much appreciated.
 
Even with a calibrated receiver, Audyssey XT32 in my case there is quite a wide difference in volume needed from different sources. I've had broadcast TV as high as -5dB, yet most blu rays can be listened to comfortably at -25dB. Sky is usually in the -15dB to -10dB and Netflix on the TV app falls into the same range.

With music SACD the volume is comfortable for listening at between -20dB and -30dB depending on the quality of the mix. CDs, although very rarely played now through the receiver need to be turned right down thanks to the loudness war.
 
Even with a calibrated receiver, Audyssey XT32 in my case there is quite a wide difference in volume needed from different sources. I've had broadcast TV as high as -5dB, yet most blu rays can be listened to comfortably at -25dB. Sky is usually in the -15dB to -10dB and Netflix on the TV app falls into the same range.

With music SACD the volume is comfortable for listening at between -20dB and -30dB depending on the quality of the mix. CDs, although very rarely played now through the receiver need to be turned right down thanks to the loudness war.


Thanks Gibbsy, that's really reassuring :smashin:
 

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