why is there so much hatred for Corbyn?

The lies, falsehoods and misrepresentations of Boris Johnson and his government.
The lies, falsehoods and misrepresentations of Boris Johnson and his government.


As bad as Trump. If anyone wants to support this man and his party, then you're worse than him. And if the country votes in the Conservative government then it will get what it deserves.

Yup these are common place , oh look that Labour red top even has one.

 
 
I can't really hate on JC as he is what he is and does not ( mostly ) hide from his past and what he stands for then as a backbencher and now as leader of his party .

It is to backward 70s focused step in time for me though on nationalisation and a morbid focus on rich vs poor in class war divide. Judging by their taxing policy it is not worth ones time in further education or bettering oneself as a Labour goverment will tax you for your efforts. So as such we should live off the state under a Labour goverment? Am I right 45% tax over 80k , 50% over 123k ?
 
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Labour's praise for Venezuela.

A country brought down by widespread nationalisation of private industry, currency and price controls, and fiscally irresponsible expansion of welfare programs.



BBC News - Venezuela: All you need to know about the crisis in nine charts
 
Boris gets voted in by Tory members why should the labour party be any different.
When Corbyn became leader it saw its membership rise massively.
Was that due to unions or was it the message he was bringing to the table.
A message of change and something different.
People hark in about the 70's and 80's of unions and having to much power.
Inflation was running at like 30% by the end of the 70s private sector pay was booming yet public sector pay was on hold by the then labour government due to inflation.
I'm happy people are critical of Israel I have many Jewish friends who are also critical of Israeli foreign policy.
Does that mean JC is an antisemite no not for me I don't think he's at all racist either.
As for the terrorist links and what not he's provided explanations for everything.
Seems if your a Tory your allowed to meet the IRA and have discussions on how to move forward towards a peace process.
Or even run as an MP for the Tories if you have links with the IRA.
But God forbid JC having a conversation with some difficult people.
I see Gorbachev was on the BBC today saying there should be no nuclear weapons in the world at all.
I'm also happy to get rid of nuclear deterrent.
Waste of money.
I'll be voting for JC he's not a racist I don't think he can be bought and has been on the right side of voting in parliament for the last 30 years.
Corbyn gets my vote as well. The anti-Semitism is an orchestrated smear campaign, which if you researched this issue you'd see that Corbyn has been an anti racist campaigner all of his life. The bottom line is Corbyn is critical of the Israeli government and the oppression of the Palestinian people. Israel continually break international law by stealing more and more land off the Palestinians, don't take just my word for it as the U.N have condemned them over this, along with their building of Israeli settlements. Also human rights abuses have been committed where Palestinian protestors have had their limbs blown off by snipers and many Palestinians have lost their lives. Israel has a right to exist, but they should move their border back to where it was in 1967, along with giving back the Golan Heights to Syria. One of my close friends Zac is Jewish and he's very critical of Israel and backs Corbyn to the hilt. And it is correct that Corbyn spoke to the IRA to try and bring about peace and an end to the troubles, it's frankly absurd for people to seriously suggest he supports terrorism when he's always been anti war and a pacifist. Labour's policies actually appeal to the majority of people in this country, and people should read their manifesto rather than getting their information by the right wing press or Rupert Murdoch. People should seriously look around at what's happening in this country, because more and more people are becoming homeless, whereas many others are getting poorer and needing food banks to get by, many of them are people in work but on low pay. Corbyn will not take the country back to the 1960's or 70's, and his policies prove that if people actually took the time to research them. Corbyns policies are more based on a Scandinavian model like Norway or Sweden, not Venezuela or 1960's communist Russia.

Voting for Boris Johnson means more poverty, more inequality, more homelessness, more wealth for the rich (many of whom have already amassed a sickening amount of money as it is), our NHS being sold off to Trump, more of our freedoms and rights taking away along with more surveillance. Tory austerity has been absolutely brutal and created so much pain and suffering for millions of people, it has to stop. 130,000 people are dead and it's all linked to brutal Tory austerity and our public services like NHS and Police Force have either been massively underfunded or suffered devastating cuts. It's ok the Tories trying to get more Police officers now, but they cut them in the first place by 21,000 officers, hence why we saw a huge rise in crime. Anyone who wants to vote Tory is only thinking about themselves in my opinion, because they much either be rich or at least comfortable and do not give a damn about those who are poor and really struggling. We have stagnant wages and millions of people in insecure work, like agency or zero hours work. Yes zero hours contracts have their place, but they're not ideal for everyone. We also have a massive housing crisis, and we need a government to build more council houses. Also I'm struggling like hell to get my daughter through University like thousands of other parents. Also, being half Jamaican I'll never forgive the Tories for their appalling treatment of the Windrush generation, people like my father have made a massive contribution to this country. Then there's their callous treatment of the Grenfell residents as well. This Tory government has no compassion or humanity for other people, and they made me sick to the stomach to be honest. They're only interested in looking after the rich and privileged, they always have done.

The only people who have to worry about Corbyn are the millionaire and billionaire tax avoiders who have their money hidden offshore in countries like the Cayman Islands. The warmongering elite who seem intent on destroying middle eastern countries so they can steal their resources like oil should also be worried, because Corbyn knows that these wars have long term devastating consequences and need to be stopped. These recent wars are based on lies and are only being committed to serve corporate interests, I just wish more people could see this.
 
Is then only option for not going back to 70's to vote Liberal, since voting labour, conservative, brexit party I think all will do that one way or another.
Vote Liberal you get Tory, haven't you looked at Jo Swinson's voting record?......It's absolutely appalling. Plus this is a woman who voted with the Tories on more policies than Michael Gove and Jeremy Hunt.
 
Labour's praise for Venezuela.

A country brought down by widespread nationalisation of private industry, currency and price controls, and fiscally irresponsible expansion of welfare programs.



BBC News - Venezuela: All you need to know about the crisis in nine charts

You fail to mention the brutal sanctions that's been inflicted on the Venezuelan government by the United States, I doubt it's got nothing to do with them being an oil rich country though eh?......No Maduro isn't a perfect leader, but to blame all of Venezuela's problems on him is incredibly disingenuous.
 
How many of the Labour front bench send their kids to private schools?
Jeremy and his mates are not so closet communists.
Name one fair and prosperous communist country.
I hope every kid at school reads the book Animal Farm, but I bet it will be the Thoughts of chairman Mao. How many people did he and Stalin make disappear?
I am not saying the Tories are perfect by a long way but what is the alternative....a Labour / Lib Dem/ Green / Scot nat coalition? Pass me my suicide pill.
It is ok I wont do it but the country would go down the pan.
So you wouldn't send your child to a good school if you can afford it?.......I think most people would. And the communist nonsense is ridiculous, but again I bet you've never ever read Labours manifesto, because if you had you'd see their policies are not extreme in the slightest, as they're based on social democracies such as Norway and Sweden.


 
The only people who have to worry about Corbyn are the millionaire and billionaire tax avoiders who have their money hidden offshore in countries like the Cayman Islands.
Aah, like The Guardian.


First, they either didn’t know or had forgotten about the Guardian Media Group’s use of a tax-exempt shell company in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying corporation tax when it sold its 50 per cent holding in Auto Trader to Apax Partners in 2008 (hat tip to Guido Fawkes). Further, they were similarly ignorant about the hundreds of millions GMG has invested in offshore hedge funds over the years. But that seems unlikely.
 
You fail to mention the brutal sanctions that's been inflicted on the Venezuelan government by the United States, I doubt it's got nothing to do with them being an oil rich country though eh?......No Maduro isn't a perfect leader, but to blame all of Venezuela's problems on him is incredibly disingenuous.
I didn't mention the US as I'm not left wing enough and they aren't the problem.


During his first term, the economy went into freefall and many Venezuelans blame him and his socialist government for the country's decline.
 
I realise this is the Corbyn thread however, where Corbyn goes the puppet master McDonnell follows.

There is a self confessed Marxist. Where has Marxism got anyone? It’s always led to ruin. Who does it hit hardest? the people it professes to help.
 
Screenshot_20191111-205255_Facebook.jpg
 
Corbyn gets my vote as well. The anti-Semitism is an orchestrated smear campaign, which if you researched this issue you'd see that Corbyn has been an anti racist campaigner all of his life. The bottom line is Corbyn is critical of the Israeli government and the oppression of the Palestinian people. Israel continually break international law by stealing more and more land off the Palestinians, don't take just my word for it as the U.N have condemned them over this, along with their building of Israeli settlements. Also human rights abuses have been committed where Palestinian protestors have had their limbs blown off by snipers and many Palestinians have lost their lives. Israel has a right to exist, but they should move their border back to where it was in 1967, along with giving back the Golan Heights to Syria. One of my close friends Zac is Jewish and he's very critical of Israel and backs Corbyn to the hilt. And it is correct that Corbyn spoke to the IRA to try and bring about peace and an end to the troubles, it's frankly absurd for people to seriously suggest he supports terrorism when he's always been anti war and a pacifist. Labour's policies actually appeal to the majority of people in this country, and people should read their manifesto rather than getting their information by the right wing press or Rupert Murdoch. People should seriously look around at what's happening in this country, because more and more people are becoming homeless, whereas many others are getting poorer and needing food banks to get by, many of them are people in work but on low pay. Corbyn will not take the country back to the 1960's or 70's, and his policies prove that if people actually took the time to research them. Corbyns policies are more based on a Scandinavian model like Norway or Sweden, not Venezuela or 1960's communist Russia.

Voting for Boris Johnson means more poverty, more inequality, more homelessness, more wealth for the rich (many of whom have already amassed a sickening amount of money as it is), our NHS being sold off to Trump, more of our freedoms and rights taking away along with more surveillance. Tory austerity has been absolutely brutal and created so much pain and suffering for millions of people, it has to stop. 130,000 people are dead and it's all linked to brutal Tory austerity and our public services like NHS and Police Force have either been massively underfunded or suffered devastating cuts. It's ok the Tories trying to get more Police officers now, but they cut them in the first place by 21,000 officers, hence why we saw a huge rise in crime. Anyone who wants to vote Tory is only thinking about themselves in my opinion, because they much either be rich or at least comfortable and do not give a damn about those who are poor and really struggling. We have stagnant wages and millions of people in insecure work, like agency or zero hours work. Yes zero hours contracts have their place, but they're not ideal for everyone. We also have a massive housing crisis, and we need a government to build more council houses. Also I'm struggling like hell to get my daughter through University like thousands of other parents. Also, being half Jamaican I'll never forgive the Tories for their appalling treatment of the Windrush generation, people like my father have made a massive contribution to this country. Then there's their callous treatment of the Grenfell residents as well. This Tory government has no compassion or humanity for other people, and they made me sick to the stomach to be honest. They're only interested in looking after the rich and privileged, they always have done.

The only people who have to worry about Corbyn are the millionaire and billionaire tax avoiders who have their money hidden offshore in countries like the Cayman Islands. The warmongering elite who seem intent on destroying middle eastern countries so they can steal their resources like oil should also be worried, because Corbyn knows that these wars have long term devastating consequences and need to be stopped. These recent wars are based on lies and are only being committed to serve corporate interests, I just wish more people could see this.
Good post and clearly focused on points of interest.

However, I cannot vote for Labour while Jeremy is the leader. Here IMO are the reasons:

1. He has very hard left tendencies.
2. He is anti-establishment - always has been and always will be.
3. He clearly favours the 'downtrodden' and 'terrorist' groups.
4. His handling of antisemitism in the Labour Party is mediocre.
5. He is not a respected political leader of the Labour Party.
6. His politics hark back to his student days and he can't seem to move on from that.
7. Having replaced all the experienced middle-ground shadow cabinet and senior Labour people the result is a shambles.
8. He lacks the ability to grasp the overall large political picture and sticks to dealing with smaller issues, in other words will never be a statesman.

With the above in mind I feel Jeremy has to be replaced before considering voting for Labour.
 
One of my close friends Zac is Jewish and he's very critical of Israel and backs Corbyn to the hilt

From the moment you put that line in the rest of the argument becomes utterly pointless.

Honestly, if anyone ever uses the 'one of my friends' line in a political argument I think it should lead to a one week ban of self-reflection. It should be a month ban if the said phrase is posted with an inserted race or creed to highlight the said point

I had a friend a school that used to think playing with himself under the desks was a good idea. Not sure it would constitute a cogent argument that 'playing with oneself under desks should be a common policy in schools' argument.

I live in a Jewish area, happen have a Jewish wife (who doesn't agree with many of the political decisions in Israel, or many other countries including our own quite frequently), and in part I guess due to that I, therefore, have many Jewish friends (amongst all my other friends from all walks of life and political spectrums) with many different political views. I'm not sure I've heard anything but concern from even the most ardent Labour supporters, but there may be some that do support him.

Either way I wouldn't post on here to basing an argument on something so serious because one of my 'close friends Anthony', who also happens to be Jewish, thinks Farage is the dogs danglies and has voted for him at every opportunity. He's not the gospel according to Jewish opinion, he's one person with one opinion. Also, despite being of polar opinion on Brexit and Farage, we still manage to be friends, spend time together and take the pee out of each others viewpoint

Like everybody else, no matter what race or religion we happen to be, we don't all think the same way or believe the same thing.

On a personal level, Corybns' actions speak louder than his words. He may have a fantastic set of policies ( mixed bag at best IMO) but his actions and inactions make me more than wary.

My experience with ardent supporters and their total dedication is a feverish ability to make him out to be some sort saviour and completely infallible, which worries me even more. It's fanatical and unhealthy.

I can't stand the current Tory party. Seriously despise what they are doing, lurching to the right so heavily, plus Brexit, and austerity but having recently spent time discussing and engaging with Momentum supporters and members if they are typical I worry that my vote, which is likely to be LD, could put Corbyn in power. He looks worse than Johnson, his cronies, look even worse.

I don't believe you make the poor richer by making the rich poor and targeting them as evil. You close loopholes, stop waste and make sure you give the opportunity to more by raising standards not dragging everyone down to lower ones. Maximize skills, not debase them. You don't achieve either by forcing poverty and deep cuts on those who can least afford it.

This election to me is a choice between two terrible options if people only vote for the two main parties. I think it may come down to better the devil you know!
 
His politics hark back to his student days and he can't seem to move on from that.

Whenever I see him speak, particularly at rallies I think.... there is a student that never grew up!
 
What about the 25 current/former members of the conservative party being investigated over islamophobic social media posts?


It doesn't get half as much notice as the anti-semitism claims.

 
What about the 25 current/former members of the conservative party being investigated over islamophobic social media posts?
Whataboutery. Does it mean antisemitism is ok then?
 
Whataboutery. Does it mean antisemitism is ok then?

Not at all, there needs to be a balance in media reporting, to wipe out all prejudice.
 
What about the 25 current/former members of the conservative party being investigated over islamophobic social media posts?


It doesn't get half as much notice as the anti-semitism claims.

 
From the moment you put that line in the rest of the argument becomes utterly pointless.

Honestly, if anyone ever uses the 'one of my friends' line in a political argument I think it should lead to a one week ban of self-reflection. It should be a month ban if the said phrase is posted with an inserted race or creed to highlight the said point

I had a friend a school that used to think playing with himself under the desks was a good idea. Not sure it would constitute a cogent argument that 'playing with oneself under desks should be a common policy in schools' argument.

I live in a Jewish area, happen have a Jewish wife (who doesn't agree with many of the political decisions in Israel, or many other countries including our own quite frequently), and in part I guess due to that I, therefore, have many Jewish friends (amongst all my other friends from all walks of life and political spectrums) with many different political views. I'm not sure I've heard anything but concern from even the most ardent Labour supporters, but there may be some that do support him.

Either way I wouldn't post on here to basing an argument on something so serious because one of my 'close friends Anthony', who also happens to be Jewish, thinks Farage is the dogs danglies and has voted for him at every opportunity. He's not the gospel according to Jewish opinion, he's one person with one opinion. Also, despite being of polar opinion on Brexit and Farage, we still manage to be friends, spend time together and take the pee out of each others viewpoint

Like everybody else, no matter what race or religion we happen to be, we don't all think the same way or believe the same thing.

On a personal level, Corybns' actions speak louder than his words. He may have a fantastic set of policies ( mixed bag at best IMO) but his actions and inactions make me more than wary.

My experience with ardent supporters and their total dedication is a feverish ability to make him out to be some sort saviour and completely infallible, which worries me even more. It's fanatical and unhealthy.

I can't stand the current Tory party. Seriously despise what they are doing, lurching to the right so heavily, plus Brexit, and austerity but having recently spent time discussing and engaging with Momentum supporters and members if they are typical I worry that my vote, which is likely to be LD, could put Corbyn in power. He looks worse than Johnson, his cronies, look even worse.

I don't believe you make the poor richer by making the rich poor and targeting them as evil. You close loopholes, stop waste and make sure you give the opportunity to more by raising standards not dragging everyone down to lower ones. Maximize skills, not debase them. You don't achieve either by forcing poverty and deep cuts on those who can least afford it.

This election to me is a choice between two terrible options if people only vote for the two main parties. I think it may come down to better the devil you know!

"but his actions and inactions make me more than wary." Take a look at his voting history, it's a lot better than most on the things I think matter.


"You close loopholes, stop waste and make sure you give the opportunity to more by raising standards not dragging everyone down to lower ones. "

Labour will go after those trying to exploit loopholes, and the EU are doing it too. And I think that it is only fair that those who earn more, pay more into the system, otherwise we get what we have now, a severely imbalanced society where the rich rule over the poor and the divide is huge. A banker receiving a huge bonus should be taxed more so that citizens working in the public sector or just the general working class don't live in poverty and have to rely on food banks.
 
There's a good article from the IFS yesterday summarising the UK tax position:


Taxes in the UK are high by historical standards. At 34.4% of national income, the tax take is at its highest sustained level since the 1940s. Policy reforms since 2010 have increased tax revenue by about £20 billion overall – despite large giveaways increasing the income tax personal allowance, cutting the headline rate of corporation tax and freezing fuel duties. Tax-raising measures, including rises in VAT and National Insurance contribution (NIC) rates, exceed these giveaways overall in revenue terms.

But UK taxes are not high by international standards. The UK tax take is near the average for developed countries, and lower than in most of Western Europe.

Income tax, National Insurance contributions (NICs) and VAT provide almost two-thirds of tax revenue. Other countries typically raise more from social security contributions and less from property taxes. It is average earnings, rather than top earnings, that would be taxed markedly more if the UK adopted the tax system of a typical higher-tax country.

The tax and benefit system is progressive overall. Before taxes and benefits, the highest-income fifth of individuals have an average household income that is 12 times as high as the poorest fifth. Adding all cash benefits and deducting the main direct personal taxes (income tax, employee and employer NICs and council tax) brings this figure down to 5. Benefits account for around 80% of this reduction, while direct taxes account for 20%. Indirect taxes (VAT and excise duties) take up a roughly constant fraction of household budgets across the income distribution, on average.

The top 1% of the adult population now pays well over a third of all income tax. Only 58% of adults are liable for income tax at all. And the top 1% even of those who do pay income tax have seen their share of total income tax payments rise from 25% to 30% since 2010 as policy reforms, particularly under the coalition, increased income tax for the best off while reducing it for those on more typical incomes.

We have a surprisingly progressive tax system.
 
"but his actions and inactions make me more than wary." Take a look at his voting history, it's a lot better than most on the things I think matter.


"You close loopholes, stop waste and make sure you give the opportunity to more by raising standards not dragging everyone down to lower ones. "

Labour will go after those trying to exploit loopholes, and the EU are doing it too. And I think that it is only fair that those who earn more, pay more into the system, otherwise we get what we have now, a severely imbalanced society where the rich rule over the poor and the divide is huge. A banker receiving a huge bonus should be taxed more so that citizens working in the public sector or just the general working class don't live in poverty and have to rely on food banks.

I probably wasn't clear, I wasn't talking about his voting actions. I was referring to his handling of Anti Semitism and his past, shall we call, dalliances and support of people I would not put up high on my Christmas list.

Mostly it's been how it's handled when it went past the point of smoke, became a fire, and he still professed nothing to see here.

It's either racist, stupid, or deceitful. It could have been knocked on the head quickly and easily. The muck thrown at others in trying to play things down and the exodus from the party of serving MP's and workers points firmly to it being not just tolerated, but supported.
 

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