Will Atmos work in this room?

Sugus

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Hi all,

Before I start I apologize for my poor English.

For some time now I want to add a pair of Dolby Atmos enabled speakers to my 5.1 home theater system.

I have read quite a lot about the Dolby Atmos speakers and I learnt somethings like:
  • This audio format was designed to be used with in-ceiling speakers, so the best options to enjoy it would be: overhead speakers – Height speakers – Dolby Enabled speakers (e.g. up-firing speakers).
  • If you cannot or do not want to install overhead/height speaker, the up-firing speakers could do the trick. They would not perform so well, but if the room meets certain requirements a reasonably good Atmos effect could be achieved.
Am I correct so far?

If so, let me introduce my non dedicated home cinema room:

Front view.jpg


Rear view.jpg


General.jpg


This is a square part of a larger rectangular shaped living room.

I have marked in the photos the position of each of the speakers of my 5.1 system as well as the position from which we watch television.

Regarding the relevant distances, they would be the following:

- Distance from the front speakers to the seating positions:

. Left speaker: 3,15m (10,4 ft).

. Right speaker: 3,35m (11 ft).

If necessary, I have enough space to move the front speakers forward or backward.

- Height from floor to ceiling: 3 meters (9,85 ft).

- Height of the front speakers: 1 meter (3,28 ft).

- Therefore, height from the base of the front speakers to the ceiling: 2 meters (6,56 ft).

- Angles of both front speakers are 28°.

The ceiling is perfectly flat and built of reflective material.

I am aware that if I want a guaranteed true Atmos directional height setup I would need to cut 4 holes in the ceiling and install 4 downfacing speakers in the correct locations, but this is not an option in my particular case because of the material that the wall and ceiling are made of.

So considering all the above, I need your opinion on 2 basic questions:

1) Do you think that my room meets the requirements so that a pair of up-firing speakers placed on top of the front speakers can do their job correctly?

2) If (I know, this is a big IF) the answer to question 1) is “Yes, it could work”, what speakers would you recommend?

After reading a lot, I guess that good candidates could be:
  • KEF Q50a (or the most expensive version: KEF R8a).
  • Klipsch R-41SA (or the most expensive version: Klipsch RP-500SA).
  • Dali Alteco C-1.
My current home cinema equipment is:

- TV set: LG OLED 65E6V
- UHD Blu Ray player: Oppo UDP-203
- AV receiver: Yamaha RX-A3060
- Speakers: Focal-Jmlab Chorus S (front: 716S, central: cc700S and rear: 705S)
- Subwoofer: SVS PB-1000

Thanks a lot, in advance, for your help and advice.
 
I would happily place upfiring speakers in your room. I use KEF upfiring speakers mounted on top my front left and right and enjoy what they bring. You could even place a second set on your surround speakers. I think those brackets are B-tech ones and they are certainly strong enough to hold another speaker on them.

I would certainly recommend the KEFs, I have R50s, so either KEF would be suitable. The R8a are very expensive.
 
I would happily place upfiring speakers in your room. I use KEF upfiring speakers mounted on top my front left and right and enjoy what they bring. You could even place a second set on your surround speakers. I think those brackets are B-tech ones and they are certainly strong enough to hold another speaker on them.

I would certainly recommend the KEFs, I have R50s, so either KEF would be suitable. The R8a are very expensive.

Hello gibbsy,

Thanks for your reply… Good to know that the room seems to be suitable for that kind of upfiring speakers. I think I'm going to try them and see what happens.
Regarding the KEFs, I believe that R50s are discontinued and they were replace by the Q50a.

In my country (Spain) Q50a are currentnly prized at 399€ (around 340£) and the Klipsch RP-500SA can be found at 520€ (443£)… Which one of those 2 would you recommend considering those prices?

On the other hand, I have read in this and other forums that when adding speakers to an installation it is convenient to choose the same brand and even range to respect the tone of the already installed speakers ... does this principle also apply to effect speakers such as the Atmos?

By the way, you are right: the brakets are B-Tech (BT77 model) and they were designed for speakers weighing up to 25kg (55lbs) so I guess I could place another couple of Atmos speaker back there…

But that is something that I will have to negotiate later with my wife. Keep in mind that if I buy the KEF, I will have to choose between white or black color, taking into account the color of the speakers I already have and the furniture where all my equipment is housed, you can imagine the problem I will have for not having searched and found a speaker exactly the same color as the ones we have. ;-)

Agree,up firing speakers should work fine in your room :)

Ps looks a really nice Home cinema setup :smashin:

Thanks also for your opinion simonblue. We are very happy with the Home Cinema system. And I really can't wait to incorporate Atmos speakers.
 
You don't have to worry too much about getting the same make and model range for modules because of the way they work. I would go for the ones that are going to be the safest fit for the top of your speakers. The replacement for the R50s are the R8a, the R50s were quite expensive when they were first released and were widely regarded as best in class, so the mantle may have been taken up with the R8a.
 
Merry Christmas to all!!,

Since my last message, I am trying to decide which speaker to buy.

Gibbsy, the KEF R50s are not available in Spain and as you say they were replaced by the KEF R8a whose price is a bit high (€ 759 - GBP 648).

If I decide on the KEF Q50a, I don't know if I will be falling short of performance (the aesthetic or material quality issue doesn't matter much to me as long as it doesn't influence the sound quality).

For that reason I am also contemplating the Klipsch RP-500SA, which normally costs about € 649 (GBP 554), but that are currently on sale for 520€ (GBP 444).

Given that the QF50a are now also on sale for € 399 (GBP 340), do you think it might be worth the effort and buy the Klipsch RP-500SA?

I put links to the specifications of both:

Klipsch RP-500SA --> https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3f...roduct-specsheets/RP-500SA_Spec-Sheet_v01.pdf

KEF QF50a --> https://us.kef.com/pub/media/documents/qseries/Q50a_Infosheet.pdf

Please help me make a decision. I am really baffled.

Greetings.
 
I haven't listened to the Klipsch, in fact I've never heard any Klipsch speakers are they are still relatively rare in the UK. However, as a whole, they are very popular in the US and have received many good reviews.

My personal experience with KEF R50s I will have to recommend the Q50s. KEF have followed the design of the R50s and passed that onto the Q50s. To me they are a neater design and looking at them the black would match the grills on your Focals and possibly be a more stable to sit on top of them.

It would be very difficult to pick either in an audition as you have to live with upfiring speakers for several weeks to get them right and to know what you are listening to. One bit of advice with the Q50 is that you would have to buy the grills separately and they are needed to dust protection.
 
Hello gibbsy,

Just to let you know that I finally bought the KEF Q50s... Now I need some time to set them up (kinda difficult in these days). As soon as is done I will let you know.

Thank you very much for your help and advice.
 
Hello everybody!!

A quick message just to let you know that this last weekend I finally got some time to set my new KEF KEF QF50a Atmos speakers up.

I wired them and run YPAO in my Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver.
As soon as I can watch a few movies I will let you know about my first impressions.

Anyone owning those KEF and a Yamaha AV receiver, please feel free to post some advise/tricks in order to set the whole thing up properly.

Cheers.
 
Hello everybody!!

A quick message just to let you know that this last weekend I finally got some time to set my new KEF KEF QF50a Atmos speakers up.

I wired them and run YPAO in my Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver.
As soon as I can watch a few movies I will let you know about my first impressions.

Anyone owning those KEF and a Yamaha AV receiver, please feel free to post some advise/tricks in order to set the whole thing up properly.

Cheers.
If you have them in the upfiring position then set the levels to +2 or +3dB over what YPAO has measured. Experiment with crossovers start with 120hz and go higher if needed.
 
Hello everybody,


I'm sorry it took so long to write here again... I work for many hours and when I get home, my 2 young children are waiting for me to play with them, so I really don't have much time left to watch and try specific titles with the band Atmos sound.

Anyway, in the end I managed to reserve some time for my AV equipment, and I could check some fragments of movies with Dolby Atmos soundtrack, and at the moment the first impressions are pretty good ...

I think, at least in the movies I've had a chance to see, there aren't too many sound effects that come specifically from the ceiling but, instead, what my Atmos speakers do is create a sound atmosphere located in most of the listening area... I don't know if that is the way in which this type of speakers is supposed to perform or if I should instead be hearing more sounds coming specifically from the ceiling.

I have read some analysis of movies with Atmos sound both in this forum and on Blu-Ray.com and they usually mention that this type of speakers contributes more to create some kind of non-located sound environment rather than to emit sounds specifically coming from the ceiling ... Am I correct?

By the way, I boosted the Atmos speakers level by 2dB (from 5dB to 7dB) and set their crossover to 120hz (is this enough or should I increase another couple of dB the Atmos speakers??)

To be completely honest, I expected to hear more effects coming specifically from the ceiling area, but I understand that it may not be the way this type of sound format works. In some specific demos prepared for Dolby Atmos that I have proven that more ceiling-oriented effects are perceived, but in films the effect is more subtle. I have seen Mad Max: Fury Road again, and I have noticed a much more immersive sound...


I hope that in the next weeks I will have the opportunity to continue watching some other contents with Atmos soundtrack… I will let you know.

Cheers.
 
Upfiring speakers do deliver a soundstage, certainly when they are placed at the front, that is 'taller' it seems to fill the void between the front speakers and the ceiling. They create more of a bubble effect with the audio. The actual object based sounds will only be present when the director has placed them in the soundstage and just life real life there are very few sounds that humans can actually discern as being from above. Just go and stand outside for a few minutes and listen to where the sounds come from.

What upfirers do very well is to portray sounds such as wind and it's movement through trees.
 
Upfiring speakers do deliver a soundstage, certainly when they are placed at the front, that is 'taller' it seems to fill the void between the front speakers and the ceiling. They create more of a bubble effect with the audio. The actual object based sounds will only be present when the director has placed them in the soundstage and just life real life there are very few sounds that humans can actually discern as being from above. Just go and stand outside for a few minutes and listen to where the sounds come from.

What upfirers do very well is to portray sounds such as wind and it's movement through trees.
I could not agree more - I have a 7.2.2 set up as opposed to the 5.1.2/.4 set up that a lot of Atmos converts use and I find the upfiring speakers to work BRILLIANTLY in my front room, however I actually have the Atmos speakers at a 40 degree angle instead of the recommended 20 degree angle as my ceiling is quite low and now the overhead sounds are perfectly placed and most importantly sound NATURAL.... when it ‘rains’ on screen you genuinely look up.... the last thing you want is height effects FOR height effects....!!! For me the best test of Atmos is to let someone else have a listen and ask where they hear the sounds - my 8yr old & other half both looked up the first time it ‘rained’..... therefore job done!!!
 
Mine are angled as well. Took weeks of working out but now I have it spot on.
I found that that the recommended 20 degree literally just ‘pushed’ the sound up... whereas 40 degrees pushed the bounce to the centre of the main listening area and instantly sounded ‘better’ and a lot more natural along with better overall sound placement 👍
 

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